Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3893429 times)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9125 on: January 29, 2016, 10:11:30 AM »
I might have ended up like you, technically in 2016 but intellectually living in a, at the very latest, fifteenth century universe populated by gods and devils and spooks and ghouls and ghosties, a dull slave of a god with the manners and morals of a brattish four year old, in denial of established fact and substituting for it every ludicrous, deranged whim cobbled together with spit and sealing wax. Free will here, the devil there.

Pitiable.
You would appear to be a lost cause, Shakes, but miracles can happen!
So I will resort to prayer, and hope that we will meet up in heaven.  :)
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9126 on: January 29, 2016, 10:24:24 AM »
You would appear to be a lost cause, Shakes, but miracles can happen!
So I will resort to prayer, and hope that we will meet up in heaven.  :)

Well I suppose there will always be a certain amount of people that we need to sweep around, sling them a banana and a drink of water from time to time; no I'm not referring to Shakes.

ippy

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9127 on: January 29, 2016, 10:41:48 AM »
Msg 9483 AB Prayer does nothing and faith answers no questions. Heaven is another made up name along with holy and sacred etc. What does seem to be true though is that we are a species passing through and with our intellect we are trying to make up things which will spare us. . . . . . . death. Christopher Hitchens put it that one day we will have to leave the party, the party will carry on without us. I would like to leave the "party" a better place but with todays world issues im not so sure.
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9128 on: January 29, 2016, 10:58:01 AM »
You would appear to be a lost cause, Shakes, but miracles can happen!
So I will resort to prayer, and hope that we will meet up in heaven.  :)
I'm sure your prayers in that regard will prove to be every bit as useful and successful as all the rest.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Alan Burns

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  • I lay it down of my own free will. John 10:18
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9129 on: January 29, 2016, 11:49:47 AM »
Msg 9483 AB Prayer does nothing and faith answers no questions. Heaven is another made up name along with holy and sacred etc. What does seem to be true though is that we are a species passing through and with our intellect we are trying to make up things which will spare us. . . . . . . death. Christopher Hitchens put it that one day we will have to leave the party, the party will carry on without us. I would like to leave the "party" a better place but with todays world issues im not so sure.
Humans would appear to be unique in their ability to try and make sense out of the tiny snippet or reality they perceive during their lifetime on this earth.  This knowledge that the true reality is out there somewhere will forever be a subject of speculation and fascination within the awareness of humans.  The truth is out there - lets hope we find it.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9130 on: January 29, 2016, 11:55:17 AM »
I have no wish to go to heaven, should it exist, ceasing to be when I die would be the best option, maybe others feel the same, Alan!
So do I take it that you will not thank me if my prayers drag you into heaven?
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9131 on: January 29, 2016, 12:00:24 PM »
You would appear to be a lost cause, Shakes, but miracles can happen!
So I will resort to prayer, and hope that we will meet up in heaven.  :)

I find this kind of thing both presumptuous and rude.

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9132 on: January 29, 2016, 12:17:51 PM »
I find this kind of thing both presumptuous and


So do I.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9133 on: January 29, 2016, 12:21:06 PM »
AB,

Quote
So do I take it that you will not thank me if my prayers drag you into heaven?

So do I take it that you will not thank me if my avoiding the cracks in the pavement this winter stops you from getting flu?

No doubt you'll ignore this question too, but just out of interest - will anything about having all your arguments here dismantled make you a bit more circumspect the next time you feel like proselytising your personal feelings as facts for the rest of us? Will you for example now prefix your pronouncements with a few "in my opinions" rather than just asserting them to be objectively true?

"Don't make me come down there."

God

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9134 on: January 29, 2016, 12:54:39 PM »
Humans would appear to be unique in their ability to try and make sense out of the tiny snippet or reality they perceive during their lifetime on this earth.  This knowledge that the true reality is out there somewhere
Is it?

What's "true reality"?

On what basis is this claim made?

As bluey has said, doubtless you'll ignore these questions too.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:04:57 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9135 on: January 29, 2016, 01:13:22 PM »
So do I take it that you will not thank me if my prayers drag you into heaven?

What a strange thing to desire for anybody.

And where does free will fit into this?

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9136 on: January 29, 2016, 01:18:58 PM »
What a strange thing to desire for anybody.

And where does free will fit into this?

What a good question, Rhi - wonder what Alan will advise!

ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9137 on: January 29, 2016, 02:30:05 PM »
You would appear to be a lost cause, Shakes, but miracles can happen!
So I will resort to prayer, and hope that we will meet up in heaven.  :)
How do you think people recognise each other in Heaven, given that their body has decomposed or been incinerated and that the memory will have disappeared?

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9138 on: January 29, 2016, 02:58:31 PM »
ekim,

Quote
How do you think people recognise each other in Heaven, given that their body has decomposed or been incinerated and that the memory will have disappeared?

Ooh, ooh - pick me, I know this one...Pick me! Pick me!

Yeeeesssss...

...OK, is it name badges in our hatbands?

Is it? I bet it is...

...Is it? Is it?

Alan - looks like we're going to need your technical expertise here old son...

"Don't make me come down there."

God

ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9139 on: January 29, 2016, 04:22:04 PM »
ekim,

Ooh, ooh - pick me, I know this one...Pick me! Pick me!

Yeeeesssss...

...OK, is it name badges in our hatbands?

Is it? I bet it is...

...Is it? Is it?


Nope, because there are so many people with the same name and also Hebrew is the only language.  You can't expect Jesus to read English, especially Canadian English <snork>.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9140 on: January 29, 2016, 04:42:07 PM »
ekim.

Quote
Nope, because there are so many people with the same name and also Hebrew is the only language.  You can't expect Jesus to read English, especially Canadian English <snork>.

You mean that Jesus didn't look just like Robert Powell or William Dafoe, and have English as his only language?

Dammit, I'm going to have to re-think this thing I guess...

...not even Charlton Heston and an American accent maybe...?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9141 on: January 29, 2016, 04:57:06 PM »
ekim.

You mean that Jesus didn't look just like Robert Powell or William Dafoe, and have English as his only language?

Dammit, I'm going to have to re-think this thing I guess...

Unless you can remove your 666 tattoo, I don't think it will apply to you.  You'll just need a Factor 30 sun cream where you're going.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9142 on: January 29, 2016, 05:05:29 PM »
ekim,

Quote
Unless you can remove your 666 tattoo, I don't think it will apply to you.  You'll just need a Factor 30 sun cream where you're going.

Wouldn't be so bad but for the fear I'd almost certainly have Alan Burns for company... :'( 
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9143 on: January 30, 2016, 12:45:51 AM »
will anything about having all your arguments here dismantled make you a bit more circumspect ?
By dismantling, I assume you refer to the alternative arguments that we came into existence by the product of random forces acting within a big cloud of gas, assisted by a crude filtering system based on survival.  And the assumption that science will eventually define how awareness works, and that free will must be an illusion because it can never be explained in physical terms.

The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9144 on: January 30, 2016, 12:59:31 AM »
Msg 9504 AB  So best make up answers then and stop asking any questions?
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9145 on: January 30, 2016, 01:58:24 AM »
By dismantling, I assume you refer to the alternative arguments that we came into existence by the product of random forces acting within a big cloud of gas, assisted by a crude filtering system based on survival.  And the assumption that science will eventually define how awareness works, and that free will must be an illusion because it can never be explained in physical terms.
That is only the start.  ;D
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9146 on: January 30, 2016, 08:48:01 AM »
By dismantling, I assume you refer to the alternative arguments that we came into existence by the product of random forces acting within a big cloud of gas, assisted by a crude filtering system based on survival.  And the assumption that science will eventually define how awareness works, and that free will must be an illusion because it can never be explained in physical terms.

More likely, dismantling refers more to the demolition of theist beliefs than the promotion of any alternatives. The scientific approach to knowledge acquisition is harder, requires work, and is often, I agree, counter intuitive in many ways. But maybe we should, to paraphrase John Kennedy, do the hard things, because we can.  Theist beliefs are ultimately not about truth, but that they masquerade as truth claims is what irritates many people who have learned to see through their spell.

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9147 on: January 30, 2016, 09:25:05 AM »
The overwhelming majority of people are in support of and full agreement with euthanasia, you know, which entails the death of an actual person (rather than a potential one as in abortion) to prevent suffering.

Most people are against suffering - perhaps you hadn't heard.

Sarcasm alive and well, I see.

If people against suffering then why abortion or the need for euthanasia?

It isn't all crystal clear is it?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9148 on: January 30, 2016, 09:27:19 AM »
That's what complicates the question - at what point does it become a person.

At conception and through the very early stages is a nonsense, it's no more a person than a chicken or a fish is.

Late term it's obviously a person, with senses and feelings and some sort of brain activity, already starting to form neural useful neural pathways.

At what point is the crossover... that's where the first of the grey areas come in.

O.

A heart beat do?

A bunch of living cells forming a baby?

Who are we to judge when it becomes a living creature.
Surely the sperm was a living thing when it entered the ovum?

Life seems to go on from the point of conception to death.
At death what does it become?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #9149 on: January 30, 2016, 09:29:19 AM »
Around 15-20% of all embryos are spontaneously aborted before the pregnancy reaches the 20week mark.

Does your god kill all those "innocent people" or has he outsourced it to this "Devil" character?

Just a thought.
If the pregnancy cannot reach full term the body stops the pregnancy.
What is it about killing? He sent his Son to give eternal life, why would you who doesn't want it, be bothered about
miscarriages ? Seems rather odd...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."