Searching for GOD...

[Khatru]

That's an interesting argument, which I tend to agree with.  But it reminded me of Paradise Lost, where Milton puts forward an equally interesting point, which can be summed up in one famous line in that poem, 'better to reign in hell than serve in heaven'. 

In other words, Satan is on a power trip, which over-rides intelligence.   Well, I think that can happen. 

However, there are surely other reasons to disbelieve in Satan - for example, it's odd to accept that something exists because of an assertion by somebody (e.g. Satan is more real than New Zealand).   Well, obviously, I can go to NZ.  How do I get in touch with Satan?   Answers on a postcard to Paradise Villa, Mokopuni Drive, Kaua'i, Hawaii.

I guess after an eternity of hosannas and telling God how wonderful he is, even the most loving of Christians may start a rebellion in heaven.  Who knows? Maybe it'll even be Billy Graham.

Mind you, could it be the red guy who is really in charge?

After all he does seem to get the best of everything.  He has earth and hell compared to the Bible god's one and he also gets the vast majority of all the souls.

What's more, the red guy seems more powerful as he (not the Bible god) is capable of being in the presence of sin.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Late to the Rodeo (Khatru)

You are misleading yet again, I get that this is all you do.

Read the entire first chapter of Habakkuk and also read the first chapter of Job. There we find the father of sin in the presence of God.

https://redeeminggod.com/god-cannot-look-upon-sin/

[Khatru]

Late to the Rodeo (Khatru)

You are misleading yet again, I get that this is all you do.

Read the entire first chapter of Habakkuk and also read the first chapter of Job. There we find the father of sin in the presence of God.

https://redeeminggod.com/god-cannot-look-upon-sin/

God is too pure to look upon sin.

Job contradicts that.

Ah well, put that down to yet another of many mixed messages in the Bible.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Len,

Quite. One of the aspects of the objective morality daftness is that it's a kind of circular argument from consequences: "if it's not celestially ordained you can't have a meaningful opinion on it, therefore...um... as my opinions about morality are meaningful they must be celestially ordained!" It's a bit like claiming a speed limit not be be a real speed limit at all because it's not an absolute written in the stars. 

Might make an interesting defence in court though: "I move Your Honour that this prosecution is flawed because PC Jenkins pulled that 30mph rule out of his arse".

Judge: "Well, Mr - er - Troll Boy (are you one of the Norfolk Troll Boys by the way? No? Ah well...) as no-one claims speed limits to be universal, cast iron, gold standard, unchangeable rules of safe travelling speed but rather they're the collective will of the society in which they apply enabled by various codes of behaviour that'll be case dismissed then. Six months, plus another six to run consecutively for egregious use of the straw man!"

T-B (for it is he) as he's led sobbing from the dock: "Er, it was the devil wot made me do it. I was dropped on me 'ed as a baby! Errrr...NON SEKWITURE, NON SEKWITURE!!! AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!"



 

You can't have a morality with any justification without science............don't you agree?
Science depends on cause and effect right? Therefore I am wondering what your objections to consequences in morality are.

[Sassy]

Matthew 28:19-20King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Genesis 12:1-3King James Version (KJV)

12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.





One should never think that one verse makes a book.

[Leonard James]

One should never think that one verse makes a book.

And one should also realise that constant repetition of Bible verses doesn't fool everybody into believing them true.

[Khatru]

12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.



[/b]

One should never think that one verse makes a book.

Wheres the bit about the Bible god wanting their foreskins?

[Nearly Sane]

Wheres the bit about the Bible god wanting their foreskins?

This is my favourite bit on foreskin in the Bible.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+4%3A24-26&version=NRSV

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Wheres the bit about the Bible god wanting their foreskins?

Going through the"Drawbacks" in the Bible again.?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Vlad,

Careful, some may want that one explained.

Gonnagle.

[Khatru]

This is my favourite bit on foreskin in the Bible.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+4%3A24-26&version=NRSV

Weird scripture.

God tries to kill Moses?  Surely the god of the Bible doesn't try anything - he just does it.

Still, thwarted by a foreskin.  That's funny.

[Khatru]

Going through the"Drawbacks" in the Bible again.?

Ouch, that was a bit cheesy. 

[floo]

And one should also realise that constant repetition of Bible verses doesn't fool everybody into believing them true.

Agreed

[Leonard James]

Dear Vlad,

Careful, some may want that one explained.

Gonnagle.

Oooh, you ARE awful! But i like you.   

[Alan Burns]

.....  Keep it you yourself, and it's no-one's business but your own; overreach by insisting that this devil is true for me too though and you'll keep crashing and burning.

Just to remind you that I am not alone in being aware of this reality, I would like to share Bishop Barron's third reflection on the Devil's temptation:

Lent Day 7
Always Be Ready
The first two temptations were straightforward enough: sensual pleasure and power. But this third one is more elusive. It is the temptation toward glory. It is the temptation to use God, to manipulate him instead of becoming his servant: “Then the devil led him to Jerusalem, set him on the parapet of the Temple, and said, ‘If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here…’”

What does the Temple have to do with glory? There was no place more central in Jewish society than the Temple, no place more revered. To stand therefore at the very pinnacle of the Temple is to stand highest in the eyes of the world. Everyone would be watching you, even God. As the devil says to Jesus, “He will bid his angels watch over you…with their hands they will support you, lest you stumble on a stone.”

This is the temptation to self-deification, one that all of us sinners are susceptible to. It's the temptation to make ourselves the center of the universe. But Jesus replies, “You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.” God remains God, and you must become his servant.

Having dealt with these three classic temptations—sensual pleasure, power, and self-deification—Jesus is ready for his mission.

But the Gospel ends on an ominous note: “When the devil had finished every temptation, he departed from him for a time.” Notice the words “for a time.” This is warning to all of us that temptation will return throughout our lives, often at key moments.

Lent is a good time to remember that we must always be ready.

[Leonard James]

Just to remind you that I am not alone in being aware of this reality, I would like to share Bishop Barron's third reflection on the Devil's temptation:

It is not reality, Alan, it is a delusion many people suffer from.

[Shaker]

Just to remind you that I am not alone in being aware of this reality

It's not a reality. It's a belief. Simply asserting that something is a reality over and over and over again won't and will never make it a reality if it's just a belief.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Just to remind you that I am not alone in being aware of this reality

Just because others think like you doesn't make it real!   

I think it's more to do with experience. Thought being analytical and that.

[Rhiannon]

I think it's more to do with experience. Thought being analytical and that.

There's nothing wrong with feeling and experiencing things that appear to be real. The problem is in then making the next step thinking that they are real, and expecting everyone else to find them as real as you do.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There's nothing wrong with feeling and experiencing things that appear to be real. The problem is in then making the next step thinking that they are real, and expecting everyone else to find them as real as you do.

Oh dear another religion as a mental health issue post.

[Rhiannon]

Oh dear another religion as a mental health issue post.

Oh dear another Vlad doesn't understand what is being said to him post.

[torridon]

I think we all struggle with the insight that our personal reality is a personal construction of our personal brain, and that therefore no one's personal reality is objective. No human, no animal, has ever had direct unreconstructed experience of reality, apart from anything else, such a notion is conceptually impossible. This means that objectivity is impossible, it also means no one can claim 'truth', and no one can claim authentic pure knowledge. We all live in our personal little reality bubble and we can only approach any sort of objectivity by comparing our experiences to build abstracted models of what is 'out there'.

[floo]

There's nothing wrong with feeling and experiencing things that appear to be real. The problem is in then making the next step thinking that they are real, and expecting everyone else to find them as real as you do.

Spot on!

[Alan Burns]

I was struck by the phrase "self-deification" used in the Lenten reflection quoted in #10248.  I see this as one of the major tools used by the devil to destroy our faith.  It is so often used as in:
If I were God I would not allow ....
A good God would never do things this way ....
If God loves us, He will save us no matter what we do ...
God should not have created the devil ...
God would surely intervene to prevent this ....
In these examples the devil is tempting us to assume that our way of thinking is superior to God's.  So instead of using our God given gifts of intelligence and intellect for good in the way God intended, the devil tempts us to mis-use them, along with other God given gifts, to destroy out faith

[Shaker]

Alan's posts increasingly remind me of this:

https://goo.gl/yTHJRb