Searching for GOD...

[torridon]

I was struck by the phrase "self-deification" used in the Lenten reflection quoted in #10248.  I see this as one of the major tools used by the devil to destroy our faith.  It is so often used as in ....

In these examples the devil is tempting us to assume that our way of thinking is superior to God's.  So instead of using our God given gifts of intelligence and intellect for good in the way God intended, the devil tempts us to mis-use them, along with other God given gifts, to destroy out faith

Have you got a method for identifying errant thoughts that result from the Devil's intervention from those that arise through natural human error ?

[wigginhall]

Have you got a method for identifying errant thoughts that result from the Devil's intervention from those that arise through natural human error ?

That seems a deadly question, rather similar to, 'how would you know you are wrong?'.   I guess Alan feels the devil in his water.   Or maybe, 'by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes'.   But I get that feeling with my ma-in-law.

[Nearly Sane]

I was struck by the phrase "self-deification" used in the Lenten reflection quoted in #10248.  I see this as one of the major tools used by the devil to destroy our faith.  It is so often used as in:
If I were God I would not allow ....
A good God would never do things this way ....
If God loves us, He will save us no matter what we do ...
God should not have created the devil ...
God would surely intervene to prevent this ....
In these examples the devil is tempting us to assume that our way of thinking is superior to God's.  So instead of using our God given gifts of intelligence and intellect for good in the way God intended, the devil tempts us to mis-use them, along with other God given gifts, to destroy out faith

'Stop asking questions I have no answer to. It's the devil making it  hard for me to answer the questions. Knowledge is bad just have faith if a question occurs, that I can't answer then you know that was Satan poking his cock of knowledge into your brain'


Couldn't you perhaps pray to your god to get answers to these questions that it seems anyone can get with a quick chat with Satan? He could even set up a Web page 'Answers in God' or 'godbites', perhaps 'whySatansmellsofpooandwee'.

[Alan Burns]

Have you got a method for identifying errant thoughts that result from the Devil's intervention from those that arise through natural human error ?

I suppose my main method of discernment in such things is, in the words of Jesus, "You will know them by their fruits". Matthew 7:16

I know Jesus was refering to false prophets in this quote, but I feel it can also apply to false ways of thinking.

[Nearly Sane]

I suppose my main method of discernment in such things is, in the words of Jesus, "You will know them by their fruits". Matthew 7:16

I know Jesus was refering to false prophets in this quote, but I feel it can also apply to false ways of thinking.

So if the fruit is a question you can't answer, then it is from Satan? Holy (wholly) circle argument, Batman!

[Sebastian Toe]

I was struck by the phrase "self-deification" used in the Lenten reflection quoted in #10248.  I see this as one of the major tools used by the devil to destroy our faith.  It is so often used as in:
If I were God I would not allow ....
A good God would never do things this way ....
If God loves us, He will save us no matter what we do ...
God should not have created the devil ...
God would surely intervene to prevent this ....
In these examples the devil is tempting us to assume that our way of thinking is superior to God's.  So instead of using our God given gifts of intelligence and intellect for good in the way God intended, the devil tempts us to mis-use them, along with other God given gifts, to destroy out faith

How do you distinguish any act as 'good in the way God intended' as opposed to the same act being the devil tempting you to assume that your way of acting is what God intended?

[Nearly Sane]

How do you distinguish any act as 'good in the way God intended' as opposed to the same act being the devil tempting you to assume that your way of acting is what God intended?

Cos Alan knows fruit

[Alan Burns]

So if the fruit is a question you can't answer. Then it I from Satan? Holy (wholly) circle argument, Batman!

No, it is not a case of questions we can't answer, but our capacity of trusting human intellect alone to provide all the answers.

[wigginhall]

Yes, it's a nice example of circular thinking, if you like that sort of thing.   Pigs are rightly called, as they are so piggish.

[Shaker]

No, it is not a case of questions we can't answer, but our capacity of trusting human intellect alone to provide all the answers.

Not all the answers Alan - any answers, since there's no evidence of anything else that can do the job.

[Enki]

I was struck by the phrase "self-deification" used in the Lenten reflection quoted in #10248.  I see this as one of the major tools used by the devil to destroy our faith.  It is so often used as in:
If I were God I would not allow ....
A good God would never do things this way ....
If God loves us, He will save us no matter what we do ...
God should not have created the devil ...
God would surely intervene to prevent this ....
In these examples the devil is tempting us to assume that our way of thinking is superior to God's.  So instead of using our God given gifts of intelligence and intellect for good in the way God intended, the devil tempts us to mis-use them, along with other God given gifts, to destroy out faith

I have to assume here that you are talking about those people who have similar beliefs to your own. I find it interesting that you think that such people might think that their thinking is superior to your God's thinking, and that they can be tempted by your devil so easily.

Luckily I have no desire or reason to make/see myself the centre of the universe. Also, the idea that I would wish to be a servant of any claimed god/devil is rather a meaningless statement as far as I am concerned, as I do not have any belief in such entities whatsoever. Hence the idea that this so called devil can tempt me to destroy my faith is not applicable in my case.

I wish you luck in finding your own way out of the dichotomy you find yourself in.

[Sebastian Toe]

Cos Alan knows fruit

..does that make him a Costermonger? 

[Nearly Sane]

No, it is not a case of questions we can't answer, but our capacity of trusting human intellect alone to provide all the answers.

I don't, I don't know anyone who does and that is the second time you have trotted out that straw man? If I am to know what is Satan inspired by fruits, then surely a continued misrepresentation would be one, in which case stop bringing Satanic statements to the board, Alan.

[Alan Burns]

Human intellect is all we have to rely on!

But my intellect tells me that there must be something greater than human intellect.

[Shaker]

But my intellect tells me that there must be something greater than human intellect.

Not your intellect, but your emotions, I would say. My intellect tells me that there's no other tool which we know of capable of asking and more importantly answering any questions we might ask of reality. Checkmate.

[Alan Burns]

Not your intellect, but your emotions, I would say. My intellect tells me that there's no other tool which we know of capable of asking and more importantly answering any questions we might ask of reality. Checkmate.

But what is the ultimate driving force behind your intellect?
I perceive that it is my conscious free will, not uncontrolled deterministic chemical activity.
And what drives my conscious free will?

[Nearly Sane]

But my intellect tells me that there must be something greater than human intellect.

How does it do that? Is this another little man in your head? Is it a version of Numbskulls where the Intellect which has a huge tefal head which keeps bumping into the doors in the different rooms, runs into the Soul room, bumps head goes 'ow!! There is something greater than me', runs out, bumps head. Soul then goes 'cool! and lights a Camberwell carrot (by their fruit and veg, ye shall know them) and begins to contemplate if in Soul's head a even tinier Intellect has bumped into a door and announced there is something greater, and a tiny Soul is spliffing away thinking about an even tinier Intellect.....

[Shaker]

But what is the ultimate driving force behind your intellect?
I perceive that it is my conscious free will, not uncontrolled deterministic chemical activity.
And what drives my conscious free will?

No idea. I'm not into filling gaps with any old bilge, however.

[torridon]

I suppose my main method of discernment in such things is, in the words of Jesus, "You will know them by their fruits". Matthew 7:16

I know Jesus was refering to false prophets in this quote, but I feel it can also apply to false ways of thinking.

That's a non-answer, you know.

What method do you use to discern whether your assessment of 'their fruits' is in fact correct, or is it false due to a supernatural intervention in your assessment courtesy of the devil, or perhaps you just got it wrong through plain old human error ?

[Alan Burns]

How does it do that?

Precisely - that is the big question!

[Shaker]

Precisely - that is the big question!

Exactly Alan; it's one of those things that you hate above all else - a question currently without an answer. That explanatory gap is what allows you to plug it with nonsense such as devils and whatnot, but that's clearly because you're simply terrified of saying "I don't know."

[Nearly Sane]

Precisely - that is the big question!

Is it? I thought the big question for you was what is consciousness and you answer that with Soul, which you represent as not just intellect. Intelkect, which in your previous answer you had verified  into another ghost in the machine as if it were separate. That seems to mean that your approach is hopelessly confused as it creates multiple entities which I indicated in my light hearted jaunt showing the issues of your approach, which you have ignored to quote mine the question from.

[torridon]

But what is the ultimate driving force behind your intellect?
I perceive that it is my conscious free will, not uncontrolled deterministic chemical activity.
And what drives my conscious free will?

What is the driving force behind your intellect ?  How about curiosity ?  Maybe it is the need to figure things out that underwrites intellect and the need to figure things out in turn is driven by a need to stay alive and prosper.  Free-will is irrelevant to intellect.

[Alan Burns]

Exactly Alan; it's one of those things that you hate above all else - a question currently without an answer. That explanatory gap is what allows you to plug it with nonsense such as devils and whatnot, but that's clearly because you're simply terrified of saying "I don't know."

To say "I don't know" to the question of what sources our free conscious thought is an easy cop out for non believers.
Would it not be closer to the truth to concede that it is not possible to generate conscious free thoughts purely from deterministic chemical activity?

[Nearly Sane]

Btw what does something being 'greater than human intellect' mean? What measurement of 'greatness' applies? How would you compare an abstract idea in this sense to other abstracts and non abstracts?


Your allowed to pray a friend/angel/deity here, Alan, and see if you can get an explanation of why what you are stating isn't the best mince.