Searching for GOD...

[Rhiannon]

Bog-standard theism, with the emphasis very much on the bog. Christopher Hitchens tells a story that when he was a tiny wee lad at school a pious teacher earnestly informed him that God made foliage - grass; leaves; stems and what have you - green because that was a nice restful colour for human eyes. Same thing as here. Alan probably thinks the teacher was bang on the money; the fact that bees collect pollen from whatever source, whether arbitrarily regarded as beautiful or ugly or all points between by some humans, really doesn't seem to appear in his impoverished and pinched mental landscape.

Well it's a nice fairy story for primary aged kids. But grown-ups believing it?

Not often I'm lost for words but this is coming close to it.

[wigginhall]

Yes, anti-life form is a good way of putting it. There is something dead in not feeling the kinship we have with the animal kingdom. Not so much them and us as it and us. No sense of relationship to this sensual, fragile, terrifying world. Perhaps that's it; religion doesn't do sensual well and shies away from terror. The fragility of it gets lost in the need to make it clean and controllable.

I quite often find AB hilarious really, the constant goal-post moving and wish fulfilment, and sheer absurdity of his ideas.   But yes, there is something ghastly here as well, the splitting off of nature from humans.   In a strange way, it's all quite mechanical and dead.   His God seems to suck the life out of everything.

There's also the point that flowers arose about 100 million years ago at least, so God designed them so that we would appreciate them well, a bit later!

[Rhiannon]

I quite often find AB hilarious really, the constant goal-post moving and wish fulfilment, and sheer absurdity of his ideas.   But yes, there is something ghastly here as well, the splitting off of nature from humans.   In a strange way, it's all quite mechanical and dead.   His God seems to suck the life out of everything.

Yes, the world as a more aesthetically pleasing version of Legoland.

[Shaker]

Better than Legoland? What is this trash talk?

[wigginhall]

Yes, the world as a more aesthetically pleasing version of Legoland.

Good image.  I was thinking of zombies.   Well, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies is a big hit, so AB presents 'God, me, and the zombies, can you spot the difference?'.

[Shaker]

I have to say, I'm struggling here.

[Bubbles]

From my own observations, bees are just as attracted to the dull looking raspberry bush as they are to magnificent flowers - they do not appear to appreciate the beauty that humans see.  I put it to you that God may well have created such beauty for the benefit of those creatures who have the true gift of perception.

True gift of perception?

Bees see a different wavelength of light that we can't.

Perhaps they have the true gift of perception.

Perhaps we can't appreciate the beauty they see.

Perhaps to a bee, there's no such thing as a dull raspberry bush.

If it wasn't for the humble bee, most of those flowers wouldn't exist.

Nor the fruits we enjoy.

🌹

[Rhiannon]

Good image.  I was thinking of zombies.   Well, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies is a big hit, so AB presents 'God, me, and the zombies, can you spot the difference?'.

Yes, it's like those artificial reality storylines Red Dwarf were fond of producing once they'd run out of ideas.

[Bubbles]

Yes, anti-life form is a good way of putting it. There is something dead in not feeling the kinship we have with the animal kingdom. Not so much them and us as it and us. No sense of relationship to this sensual, fragile, terrifying world. Perhaps that's it; religion doesn't do sensual well and shies away from terror. The fragility of it gets lost in the need to make it clean and controllable.

It's not just a kinship though, we rely on bees for pollination.

It's quite worrying that their numbers have been reduced.

You are right, we are not separate and distant to the ecology of the planet and we are not superior to it.

We rely on it, from the oxygen produced by the plants,  to the bees.

🌹

[Rhiannon]

It's not just a kinship though, we rely on bees for pollination.

It's quite worrying that their numbers have been reduced.

You are right, we are not separate and distant to the ecology of the planet and we are not superior to it.

We rely on it, from the oxygen produced by the plants,  to the bees.

🌹

That's what kinship is to me Rose, at least in part. That and a sharing, an empathy. And love.

Alan makes his relationship to the rest of nature sound like the love I have for a new bottle of nail polish. Fun but fleeting and ultimately disposable.

[Shaker]

It's not just a kinship though, we rely on bees for pollination.

It's quite worrying that their numbers have been reduced.

You are right, we are not separate and distant to the ecology of the planet and we are not superior to it.

We rely on it, from the oxygen produced by the plants,  to the bees.

🌹

If I didn't know better, with that sort of talk you could almost be a pannelist panoply pancake pantheist.

[Leonard James]

Now let's not get carried away by all this airy-fairy talk.

All life on earth is nothing more than an interacting splodge of materials. Including us. That's all. 

[Bubbles]

If I didn't know better, with that sort of talk you could almost be a pannelist panoply pancake pantheist.

 
There's hope for me yet, then?

 

🌹

[Rhiannon]

And for Len too if his last post is anything to go by. 

[Leonard James]

And for Len too if his last post is anything to go by. 

Life is for living the best way you know how ... and enjoying it as you go.

[Rhiannon]

Life is for living the best way you know how ... and enjoying it as you go.

Blimey, you can be a pagan to boot!

[Leonard James]

Blimey, you can be a pagan to boot!

Call me whatever makes you happy! 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I have no doubt that science will make great inroads into finding out how things work, but this alone does not eliminate the need for a maker of those things.

I agree I think it was Godel who said a system cannot be adequately explained by its components but involves an external.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If I didn't know better, with that sort of talk you could almost be a pannelist panoply pancake pantheist.

Still doing your linguistic hijack experiment?

[Shaker]

Still doing your linguistic hijack experiment?

Nope!

[ippy]

True gift of perception?

Bees see a different wavelength of light that we can't.

Perhaps they have the true gift of perception.

Perhaps we can't appreciate the beauty they see.

Perhaps to a bee, there's no such thing as a dull raspberry bush.

If it wasn't for the humble bee, most of those flowers wouldn't exist. 8

Nor the fruits we enjoy.

🌹

Yes raspberrys I'm sure there's a place for at least one somewhere on this thread Rose, certainly not aimed in your direction.

ippy

[Alan Burns]

Alan makes his relationship to the rest of nature sound like the love I have for a new bottle of nail polish. Fun but fleeting and ultimately disposable.

Everything we see in nature is fleeting and we know it will not last.  But human beings have an insight and longing for something eternal.

[Rhiannon]

Everything we see in nature is fleeting and we know it will not last.  But human beings have an insight and longing for something eternal.

Well yes. Quite a lot of people do indeed.

That doesn't make it real or make human life any less fleeting either.
 

[Shaker]

Well yes. Quite a lot of people do indeed.

That doesn't make it real or make human life any less fleeting either.

That.

[torridon]

From my own observations, bees are just as attracted to the dull looking raspberry bush as they are to magnificent flowers - they do not appear to appreciate the beauty that humans see.  I put it to you that God may well have created such beauty for the benefit of those creatures who have the true gift of perception.

Ah well in that case, you'll have to explain why god made cockroaches and rats and the West Nile virus too.  You wouldn't want people thinking you had bias in your attributions to God, I'm sure ?