Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

Could it also make it so that there was no suffering?

Yes, in heaven.

[Alan Burns]

Interesting reflection from today's Lenten reading:

One of the key visuals in the story of the Transfiguration is the divine light that radiates from Jesus. Matthew says, “His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.” Luke reports, “His clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.” And Mark says, “His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them.”

This light seems to signal the beauty and radiance of a world beyond this one, a world rarely seen, and only occasionally glimpsed, amidst the griminess and ordinariness of this world.

Is this beautiful and radiant world ever seen today? Let me share a few stories with you. When I was traveling recently, I met a man who, as a young man, encountered St. Padre Pio, the famous stigmatist. He was privileged to serve his Mass. During the elevation of the host, after the consecration, this man noticed something remarkable: there was a glow around the holy man’s hands. Years later when he heard reports of “auras” he said to himself, “That’s what I saw that day.”

Malcolm Muggeridge, the English journalist and convert to Catholicism, was filming Mother Teresa for a documentary. One day, the electricity was out, and he bemoaned the fact that he had to film her without lights, convinced that the day would be lost. But when the film was developed, he noticed that the scenes were beautifully lit, and it appeared as though the light was coming from her.

And I know this might be a bit of a stretch, but there is scientific speculation that the marks on the shroud of Turin, the holy icon thought by many to be the burial shroud of Christ, were caused by a burst of radiant energy—light energy.

From the time of the earliest disciples, the holy followers of Jesus were pictured with halos above their heads. What is a halo if it is not the divine light breaking into our world today?

[Gordon]

It is a fact that every person on this earth will endure suffering and death.  I do not profess to know what is behind it all, but I know God can help us through it.

No, Alan, you believe your God can help you: but you don't 'know', as in having knowledge.

[Sassy]

Bingo - so God gets the 'get out of jail free' card for all the bad stuff, but we must praise it for all the good stuff.

Please explain how a child with terminal bone cancer is 'responsible' and your God isn't.

Please explain if God is responsible but you believe he does not exist, who is responsible for the child's terminal bone cancer?
Belief or disbelief in God does not give blame to God for the cancer.
What about nuclear explosions in the atmosphere by man and bomb tests in the Oceans. Aren't they more likely to carry some responsibility and so become the blame of man?
How many serving officers died after bomb tests from related diseases to atomic power?

Satan.... what part do you think he played in the harming of others?

Read Job 1. Why does Job lose all he has?

Who restores everything....

What did Christ say after he sent the disciples out to preach the good news and heal and restore?

. 17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Who accuses man and wants to harm mankind. SATAN.

What about you Gordon, If your gift from God was to heal but you turn your back so the child never gets healed.
Is that your fault you let Satan talk you out of it...

God is not to blame for how a child dies. But unlike Satan, God won't allow that child to go to hell he will be with the Father in paradise and safe from all further harm.

God gets bad press from you. But you don't believe in God. So who is to blame, why are those children dying?
Gordon God loves the world the people.

[Gordon]

Malcolm Muggeridge, the English journalist and convert to Catholicism, was filming Mother Teresa for a documentary. One day, the electricity was out, and he bemoaned the fact that he had to film her without lights, convinced that the day would be lost. But when the film was developed, he noticed that the scenes were beautifully lit, and it appeared as though the light was coming from her.

And I know this might be a bit of a stretch, but there is scientific speculation that the marks on the shroud of Turin, the holy icon thought by many to be the burial shroud of Christ, were caused by a burst of radiant energy—light energy.

Malcolm Muggeridge was a pretentious buffoon in the C.S. Lewis mould.

Try reading Christopher Hitchens 'The Missionary Position', where he deals with this silly claim made by Muggeridge.   

[ippy]

Interesting reflection from today's Lenten reading:

One of the key visuals in the story of the Transfiguration is the divine light that radiates from Jesus. Matthew says, “His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.” Luke reports, “His clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.” And Mark says, “His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them.”

This light seems to signal the beauty and radiance of a world beyond this one, a world rarely seen, and only occasionally glimpsed, amidst the griminess and ordinariness of this world.

Is this beautiful and radiant world ever seen today? Let me share a few stories with you. When I was traveling recently, I met a man who, as a young man, encountered St. Padre Pio, the famous stigmatist. He was privileged to serve his Mass. During the elevation of the host, after the consecration, this man noticed something remarkable: there was a glow around the holy man’s hands. Years later when he heard reports of “auras” he said to himself, “That’s what I saw that day.”

Malcolm Muggeridge, the English journalist and convert to Catholicism, was filming Mother Teresa for a documentary. One day, the electricity was out, and he bemoaned the fact that he had to film her without lights, convinced that the day would be lost. But when the film was developed, he noticed that the scenes were beautifully lit, and it appeared as though the light was coming from her.

And I know this might be a bit of a stretch, but there is scientific speculation that the marks on the shroud of Turin, the holy icon thought by many to be the burial shroud of Christ, were caused by a burst of radiant energy—light energy.

From the time of the earliest disciples, the holy followers of Jesus were pictured with halos above their heads. What is a halo if it is not the divine light breaking into our world today?

Thank goodness this pathetic type of thinking and way of behaving's is largely on it's way out and not before time.

The use of the word thinking above was ment in the loosest form of that word.

ippy

[BeRational]

Yes, in heaven.

Why not here?

Can it not do that?

Is it powerless to stop suffering here?

[floo]

Please explain if God is responsible but you believe he does not exist, who is responsible for the child's terminal bone cancer?
Belief or disbelief in God does not give blame to God for the cancer.
What about nuclear explosions in the atmosphere by man and bomb tests in the Oceans. Aren't they more likely to carry some responsibility and so become the blame of man?
How many serving officers died after bomb tests from related diseases to atomic power?

Satan.... what part do you think he played in the harming of others?

Read Job 1. Why does Job lose all he has?

Who restores everything....

What did Christ say after he sent the disciples out to preach the good news and heal and restore?

. 17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Who accuses man and wants to harm mankind. SATAN.

What about you Gordon, If your gift from God was to heal but you turn your back so the child never gets healed.
Is that your fault you let Satan talk you out of it...

God is not to blame for how a child dies. But unlike Satan, God won't allow that child to go to hell he will be with the Father in paradise and safe from all further harm.

God gets bad press from you. But you don't believe in God. So who is to blame, why are those children dying?
Gordon God loves the world the people.

If god exists it is responsible for everything, seeing it is supposed to have created the world and human nature. Its screw ups are down to it!

[ippy]

Please explain if God is responsible but you believe he does not exist, who is responsible for the child's terminal bone cancer?
Belief or disbelief in God does not give blame to God for the cancer.
What about nuclear explosions in the atmosphere by man and bomb tests in the Oceans. Aren't they more likely to carry some responsibility and so become the blame of man?
How many serving officers died after bomb tests from related diseases to atomic power?

Satan.... what part do you think he played in the harming of others?

Read Job 1. Why does Job lose all he has?

Who restores everything....

What did Christ say after he sent the disciples out to preach the good news and heal and restore?

. 17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Who accuses man and wants to harm mankind. SATAN.

What about you Gordon, If your gift from God was to heal but you turn your back so the child never gets healed.
Is that your fault you let Satan talk you out of it...

God is not to blame for how a child dies. But unlike Satan, God won't allow that child to go to hell he will be with the Father in paradise and safe from all further harm.

God gets bad press from you. But you don't believe in God. So who is to blame, why are those children dying?
Gordon God loves the world the people.

Sass their's no diference between a large or small amount of nonsense, it remains nonsense no matter how little or how much of it you or anyone else quotes, only obviously you don't seem to have taken this basic fact in yet.

ippy

[Shaker]

Malcolm Muggeridge, the English journalist and convert to Catholicism, was filming Mother Teresa for a documentary. One day, the electricity was out, and he bemoaned the fact that he had to film her without lights, convinced that the day would be lost. But when the film was developed, he noticed that the scenes were beautifully lit, and it appeared as though the light was coming from her.

That was due to a batch of particularly good (i.e. light-sensitive), at that time brand-new Kodak film stock, as attested to by the cameraman (i.e. expert in the field) that day, Ken somebody-or-other. No miracle (only to the terminally gullible), just good human technology.

ETA: It was Ken McMillan, and the actual explanation can be found here: https://goo.gl/SP7Wci

So there you have it Alan. You can choose the real explanation, one based upon technology as witnessed by an expert user in that field of technology, or you can have the fairy tale version for the invincibly credulous. Let's see which one you go for.

[Khatru]

The sadness is that so many people seem to be blinded to the goodness and wisdom of God, and instead blame Him for everything that they see to be wrong in this world.

The God I know and love died for me so that I could be saved.  He did it for you too.

I suppose you also believe that your deity created the universe for you?

As for your god's goodness, tell it to the hundreds, maybe thousands of children and babies who have died this week from disease and famine.

[Shaker]

Sass their's no diference between a large or small amount of nonsense, it remains nonsense no matter how little or how much of it you or anyone else quotes, only obviously you don't seem to have taken this basic fact in yet.

Well, there is a difference - there's ordinary, everyday nonsense, and then there's Sassy's nonsense which is 144 times worse, making it gross nonsense.

[Gordon]

Please explain if God is responsible but you believe he does not exist, who is responsible for the child's terminal bone cancer?

Unless there is a known cause, such as exposure to radiation, I don't think anyone or anything is responsible: but then again I adopt the same approach to the good stuff. It is you guys who want to praise your omni-God for the good stuff but give it an opt out for the bad stuff.

Belief or disbelief in God does not give blame to God for the cancer.

This must be a non-sequitur since it seems to be a sentence with no discernible meaning.

What about nuclear explosions in the atmosphere by man and bomb tests in the Oceans. Aren't they more likely to carry some responsibility and so become the blame of man?

Of course, but you still have the problem of stuff that can't be attributed to humans, such as natural disasters.
 

How many serving officers died after bomb tests from related diseases to atomic power?

Don't know the details but that there were some seems likely, given what is now known about radiation, but in terms of your God you guys let him off the hook with obvious human mistakes. However, some of you guys also believe in an interventionist God so where was it when those exposed to radiation from Chernobyl started to suffer?

Satan.... what part do you think he played in the harming of others?

The same as was played by Dennis the Menace, Sherlock Holmes and Holden Caulfield: that is none whatsoever, since being fictitious limits their capabilities somewhat.

Read Job 1. Why does Job lose all he has?

No idea, so why not just tell me if you think it is relevant.

Who restores everything....

Mr Sheen of course.

What did Christ say after he sent the disciples out to preach the good news and heal and restore?

No idea, and more importantly neither have you since you can't confirm that what Christ is alleged to have said in that the relevant NT reports are all anecdotal, and where these anecdotes were only written decades later. How do you know that what Christ is alleged to have said doesn't involve the element of mistake, exaggeration or fiction?

. 17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Dennis the Menace says 'if you break windows remember to run away fast': I just made that up but I'm sure you'll get my point.

Who accuses man and wants to harm mankind. SATAN.

You've been reading too much bad fiction again.

What about you Gordon, If your gift from God was to heal but you turn your back so the child never gets healed.

Hypothetically, of course, I'd never turn my back - but then again the notion of supernatural healing is yet more superstitious nonsense.
 

Is that your fault you let Satan talk you out of it...

Nope - I can recognise fictional characters quite easily, and funnily enough I mentioned this to Don Corleone when we last had lunch together.

God is not to blame for how a child dies. But unlike Satan, God won't allow that child to go to hell he will be with the Father in paradise and safe from all further harm.

Too silly to respond to.

God gets bad press from you. But you don't believe in God. So who is to blame, why are those children dying?

Not quite: there are no good reason to think this God exists. The reality seems to be, sadly, that sometimes shit happens.

Gordon God loves the world the people.

'Hallelujah' seems like the best response to this.

[torridon]

But by creating entities with their own free will - by definition, God is not directly responsible for all events.  Those beings which have the ability to exert their free will have to take the responsibility for their actions.

You can't put all the bad things down to 'free-will'. Ebola, Zika virus,  Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, yellow fever, tuberculosis, malaria, motor neurone disease, nodding syndrome, the Lord God made them all, not to mention a shed load of others.

[torridon]

Could it also make it so that there was no suffering?

Yes, in heaven.

So, will horses and hamsters be resurrected so that they too can experience life without suffering ?

[Rhiannon]

You can't put all the bad things down to 'free-will'. Ebola, Zika virus,  Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, yellow fever, tuberculosis, malaria, motor neurone disease, nodding syndrome, the Lord God made them all, not to mention a shed load of others.

Facing that would give Alan two choices. One, his god's a bit of a bastard. Or two - and this might be worse for him to take - his god's actually quite little and not up to much.

You can see why he prefers his pretend free will get-out clause.

[Brownie]

Malcolm Muggeridge was a pretentious buffoon in the C.S. Lewis mould.

Try reading Christopher Hitchens 'The Missionary Position', where he deals with this silly claim made by Muggeridge.   

I don't know about the lighting business, can't remember that, but I read 'Something Beautiful for God' when I was about 20, also saw a film documentary about it, with Malcolm Muggeridge.  I loved both, they had quite an effect on the young me.

Naturally, some forty-six years later, I can see Malcolm Muggeridge as a bit of a romantic but, for all that, he was sincere, no harm was done and it was very pleasant at the time to have my imagination captured in that way.

[Khatru]

Unless there is a known cause, such as exposure to radiation, I don't think anyone or anything is responsible: but then again I adopt the same approach to the good stuff. It is you guys who want to praise your omni-God for the good stuff but give it an opt out for the bad stuff.

Absolutely!

Christians will often attach a human sense of reason to their deity, only to detach it whenever it suits them.

Like most humans, a Christian knows that being good includes treating people with kindness and helping them through difficult experiences.  This is why Christians have no problem crediting their god when something good happens. They are describing their god by our standards using conventional terms that relate to a human interpretation of kindness, intelligence, justice, etc.

However, let's try asking a Christian why an infinitely loving god would allow his chosen people to be killed in their millions by the Nazis.  Invariably we'll get some response like:  "God moves in mysterious ways" or "I don't know why God permitted this but he has his reasons and they are all good reasons". 

So when it's all neat and tidy they bestow upon their god human notions of logic, goodness, etc.  Yet when the going gets tough and things aren't so rosy, the human standards in which they describe their god are abandoned in favour of special pleading that we are but mere mortals who cannot comprehend their deity.

It's pigeon chess - a game played by people who have abandoned logic, reason and common sense.

[ippy]

Well, there is a difference - there's ordinary, everyday nonsense, and then there's Sassy's nonsense which is 144 times worse, making it gross nonsense.

Like 24 bits of a quired knowledge.

ippy

[SusanDoris]

Spot on. We aren't supposed to go anything of the sort; manners or not these beliefs aren't just nauseating, they are actually quite frightening. What kind of blinkered self-importance could possibly allow for them?

Hear, hear, to you and NS.

[Alan Burns]

ETA: It was Ken McMillan, and the actual explanation can be found here: https://goo.gl/SP7Wci

This "explanation" would appear to be from a not very objective source.

[Shaker]

This "explanation" would appear to be from a not very objective source.

The explanation came ultimately from a professional cameraman who handled film stock every day of his life - the website I linked to is merely one of many sites on the Web which give Ken MacMillan's account of what actually happened.

So you're saying that Saint Mug of the Terminally Gullible is an objective source of reliable information, is that it?

Ken MacMillan is still alive - he was born on June 16th 1939 in Dunfermline. Feel free to track him down (he's had a high-profile career, so this shouldn't be difficult) and ask him about it yourself.

Not that you will, obviously.

[Gordon]

This "explanation" would appear to be from a not very objective source.

The explanation is from the expert on the scene, as opposed to a Christian apologist like Muggeridge (and I'm old enough to remember him well).

[Alan Burns]

You can't put all the bad things down to 'free-will'. Ebola, Zika virus,  Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, yellow fever, tuberculosis, malaria, motor neurone disease, nodding syndrome, the Lord God made them all, not to mention a shed load of others.

People often quote the physical suffering of other people as a reason to believe that God does not exist.  But you will find that many of those who endure physical suffering are very close to God.  The spiritual starvation of many in this affluent age will ultimately have far worse consequences than those who endure physical hardships.  And spiritual starvation is much more difficult to remedy.

[Shaker]

Ken Macmillan's own words:

During Something Beautiful for God there was an episode where we were taken to a building that Mother Teresa called the House of the Dying. Peter Chafer, the director, said, "Ah well, it's very dark in here. Do you think we can get something?" And we had just taken delivery at the BBC of some new film made by Kodak, which we hadn't had time to test before we left, so I said to Peter, "Well, we may as well have a go." So we shot it. And when we got back several weeks later, a month or two later, we are sitting in the rushes theatre at Ealing Studios and eventually up come the shots of the House of the Dying. And it was surprising. You could see every detail. And I said, "That's amazing. That's extraordinary." And I was going to go on to say, you know, three cheers for Kodak. I didn't get a chance to say that, though, because Malcolm, sitting in the front row, spun around and said, "It's divine light! It's Mother Teresa. You'll find that it's divine light, old boy." And three or four days later I found that I was being phoned by journalists from London newspapers who were saying things like, "We hear you've just come back from India with Malcolm Muggeridge and you were the witness of a miracle."

And thus even in our own time are so-called miracles whipped up by the credulous.