Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

I think you have just declared yourself to be a Muslim 

No. It's only a few words that I've quoted - I don't actually believe it.

[Shaker]

Which bit of Alan's post is nonsense, in your opinion?  The bit about Shakespeare or Jesus being the way, the truth and the life?

Certainly the latter; but equally the idea that a writer reveals himself to his fictional creations, which is as barmy as the  reverse scenario.

[torridon]

Fiction is man's creation.
Life is God's creation.

He's on a roll now; somebody stop him !

[Shaker]

Tranquilizer dart and nets?

[Leonard James]

It's difficult to know who to blame for this sad situation. It's the fault of either the authors who invented all this superstitious stuff or the credulous people who believe it. 

[floo]

It's difficult to know who to blame for this sad situation. It's the fault of either the authors who invented all this superstitious stuff or the credulous people who believe it. 

I doubt you can blame the authors for using their imaginations in those far off pre-science days. However, as we now live in the 21st century believing the Biblical fairy tales to be true does make people seem rather silly and gullible!

[Khatru]

Silly old Shaker, you are describing what that magician, Jo Smith, claimed happened to him. Islam got the Koran and Mormons got the Book of Mormon.

How do you know it wasn't your god starting again?

He did it with Christianity.

Perhaps he didn't like the way that was going so he started Islam and centuries later, when he didn't think that was going too well, he started Mormonism.

[Alan Burns]

I must have read the NT a few times by now

I am intrigued to know what prompted you to read it more than once.  I am constantly dipping into the NT, but I can't imagine ever being tempted to read Dawkins or Hitchens more than once.

[Shaker]

I am intrigued to know what prompted you to read it more than once.  I am constantly dipping into the NT, but I can't imagine ever being tempted to read Dawkins or Hitchens more than once.

Because I'm frequently drawn back to check up on/confirm quotes I come across - it's research, not reading for pleasure. And, of course, replenishing the arsenal, since you can't argue against something without knowing what the opponent believes.

Dawkins and Hitchens on the other hand I've read many times over, not only to soak up information (obviously) but for the sheer joy of reading two superb users of the English language.

Your reluctance stems from the fact that they say things you don't like, I expect.

[Brownie]

Certainly the latter; but equally the idea that a writer reveals himself to his fictional creations, which is as barmy as the  reverse scenario.

 
Thanks but floo can speak for herself.  I could guess what you think Shaker.  Probably could guess what floo thinks but would rather she said it.

As an aside, when I was doing RE (or whatever it was called then), for 'O' level donkeys' years ago, I quoted a bit of Shakespeare, from Julius Caesar, thinking it was from the Bible.  Afterwards I realised what I'd done.  I thought it was funny, the teachers didn't - but I passed anyway so not to worry.

[Shaker]

 
Thanks but floo can speak for herself.  I could guess what you think Shaker.  Probably could guess what floo thinks but would rather she said it.

Since I called Alan's post nonsense in #10855, and you asked whch bit of of it was nonsense, I took it that you were asking me.

[Alan Burns]

Dawkins and Hitchens on the other hand I've read many times over, not only to soak up information (obviously) but for the sheer joy of reading two superb users of the English language.

Dawkins and Hitchens are two very clever, talented people, but the devil is far more clever than any of us, which is why we need the help of our Saviour.

[Shaker]

Dawkins and Hitchens are two very clever, talented people, but the devil is far more clever than any of us, which is why we need the help of our Saviour.

You might have a need to believe in such manifest and really quite sinister nonsense - well, there's no might about it; obviously you do - but normally-constituted people do not.

[Alan Burns]

You might have a need to believe in such manifest and really quite sinister nonsense - well, there's no might about it; obviously you do - but normally-constituted people do not.

Which just illustrates just how clever the devil is at hiding the truth from us.

[wigginhall]

Which just illustrates just how clever the devil is at hiding the truth from us.

I'm curious as to how you know when it's the devil at work.   For example, which posters here strike you as demonically affected?  All of them?

[Leonard James]

Which just illustrates just how clever the devil is at hiding the truth from us.

You are virtually saying that your "God" isn't strong enough to make his truth "Devil" proof. How very odd!

[Leonard James]

I'm curious as to how you know when it's the devil at work.   For example, which posters here strike you as demonically affected?  All of them?

We certainly ain't so fainthearted as the Christians, who seem to have dwindled considerably.

[Shaker]

Which just illustrates just how clever the devil is at hiding the truth from us.

Same question here as with prayer. What's your methodology? How do you tell the difference between truth being hidden by the devil, and the absence of any such truth? If you claim that there's a truth which is being concealed, how do you know of its existence (know, not believe) as opposed to it simply not existing in the first place? Remember that the invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. If you've no means of distinguishing one from t'other, what does that imply for your beliefs?

It's a genuine question - stop dodging it and answer, if you think you can.

[Gordon]

Fiction is man's creation.

On that we agree.

Therefore it is essential to bear this in mind when coming across stuff that is indistinguishable from fiction: such as anecdotal accounts written decades after the events they claim to portray, where the provenance is uncertain or is not knowable and also bearing in mind the risk of human artifice.

Ring any warning bells?

[Enki]

Which bit of Alan's post is nonsense, in your opinion?  The bit about Shakespeare or Jesus being the way, the truth and the life?

Shakespeare created characters and stories from his considerable imagination. Even in his history plays, his use of real historical characters was simply a device to explore his own considerable creative abilities and to entertain the public.

The idea that Jesus was the way, the truth and the life is something which the NT writers wished people of those times to accept.

I suggest that, in comparing the two, the words chalk and cheese come to mind.

[torridon]

Which just illustrates just how clever the devil is at hiding the truth from us.

So again you are back to your god being either too feeble to overcome/get rid of the devil, or disinterested in sorting out that devil chappie.  Either way what you describe falls short of 'God'.

[jjohnjil]

You have to admit those Bible story writers were clever!  If it's good, they say, credit God ... if it's bad blame Satan!

No wonder AB and co stay hooked.  Whenever someone gives an argument against their beliefs, "That old Devil is up to his tricks, so don't listen!"

[floo]

You have to admit those Bible story writers were clever!  If it's good, they say, credit God ... if it's bad blame Satan!

No wonder AB and co stay hooked.  Whenever someone gives an argument against their beliefs, "That old Devil is up to his tricks, so don't listen!"

Old Satan has his uses!

[Brownie]

Since I called Alan's post nonsense in #10855, and you asked whch bit of of it was nonsense, I took it that you were asking me.

No sweat Shaky, mea culpa for not being clearer.  I'm not wondering about what floo thinks any more either, it's just that I remember her from years back when she was a Christian and can't help wondering what changed.  Still that's her business.  We've all changed over the years, I know I am far more liberal than I used to be - though I was always liberal in practice, I came over as less so on forums because I researched things a bit more.  C'est la vie.

[Enki]

Old Satan has his uses!

And who is to say that Alan, himself, isn't being used by this Devil?  After all, he is so unconvincing in his assertions that I would maintain that he actually puts many people off with his protestations of his faith.  Isn't this what his devil aspires to?