Searching for GOD...

[wigginhall]

Pretty ghastly thing to say to someone, especially the dig about grandchildren.  Wow, Christianity as a kind of gulag.

[Rhiannon]

Anyone surprised though?

[Maeght]

I know no-one will agree with me  , I'm used to that.

A very good post I would say.

[Brownie]

Just my opinion.  I like both of them, or all three if you count Len  .
The picture painted of being in a world of your own without being able to reach those outside it but seeing them at their activiites, stays with me.

I don't go for the traditional concept of Hell but do believe there is something like Hell on earth, sometimes of our own making and sometimes because of illness.  I can't imagine the Lord is going to punish us again when we're dead.

[Shaker]

I don't go for the traditional concept of Hell but do believe there is something like Hell on earth

I always think of Schopenhauer's comment (paraphrased, but not much): "Think of what men do to each other, and ask yourself if Satan and all his demons can do more."

And that was a century before WWI and the Holocaust and what have you.

[wigginhall]

Anyone surprised though?

No, not really.  It still gives me a shudder, I suppose, so venomous.   Gentle Jesus, meek and mild, cast them out into the darkness, from where they can watch the happy people!   You know you want to!

[Rhiannon]

I always think of Schopenhauer's comment (paraphrased, but not much): "Think of what men do to each other, and ask yourself if Satan and all his demons can do more."

And that was a century before WWI and the Holocaust and what have you.

My reading tends to be light and disposable, so here's Jerry Barton in The Moving Finger:

"God doesn't really need to punish us, Miss Barton. We're so busy punishing ourselves."

[Rhiannon]

No, not really.  It still gives me a shudder, I suppose, so venomous.   Gentle Jesus, meek and mild, cast them out into the darkness, from where they can watch the happy people!   You know you want to!

Crafted to hurt. That's what I'll never understand.

[wigginhall]

Crafted to hurt. That's what I'll never understand.

Rage and envy, innit?

[wigginhall]

My reading tends to be light and disposable, so here's Jerry Barton in The Moving Finger:

"God doesn't really need to punish us, Miss Barton. We're so busy punishing ourselves."

Yes.  I remember doing some training courses in therapy, and whoah, here was this huge monster called guilt, ruining people's lives.  And another monster called envy, and in fact, several others.  I don't think that religion creates them, but it exploits them. 

And also the idea of 'reaction formation' came in handy, that people possessed by the darkness, often claim the light. 

[Enki]

Pretty ghastly thing to say to someone, especially the dig about grandchildren.  Wow, Christianity as a kind of gulag.

Yes, I know. I had to look back at Sassy's post to see what it was all about. As Rhiannon says though, I'm not surprised. I usually find Sassy's posts either hard to read and understand  and/or pretty unpleasant in their insinuations so I tend to gloss over them.  I suppose if you are of the mindset that Sassy portrays, then it makes some sort of sense. Thankfully I aren't, so apart from mild amusement sometimes, I find her points to be pretty ineffectual.

[Rhiannon]

Yes.  I remember doing some training courses in therapy, and whoah, here was this huge monster called guilt, ruining people's lives.  And another monster called envy, and in fact, several others.  I don't think that religion creates them, but it exploits them. 

And also the idea of 'reaction formation' came in handy, that people possessed by the darkness, often claim the light.

Spot on. And look what envy does, just for starters.

[Khatru]

You really thought that Satan can be anything else but the Father of all lies?
Or those who belong to him can do any less than he can?

Welcome to this session of the "Blame Man First" club, brought to you by the pessimists, nihilists and misanthropes at Jesus Inc.

Your god's gift would have been about as useless to a pair of easily tempted babes left unattended in the presence of temptation that exceeded their modest ability to control themselves as a food mixer would have been.  Especially with the greatest supervillain in the universe put there to ensure that they were overmatched.

You call him the great deceiver, don't you? It's sickening that you blame the victims here, who were obviously set up to fail.

[wigginhall]

Spot on. And look what envy does, just for starters.

I don't think that all Christians have 'sugar on shit' as their make-up.   It's just rather depressing, and in a strange way, tiring, when you do come across that, as their outward assertions of love pretty soon reveal their inward nastiness.   Well, lots of people are like that of course, but somehow, it grates, when you are getting the message that God loves you, but I don't, and you are probably condemned to eternal torture.  Gee, thanks for that.   

[jjohnjil]

I don't think that all Christians have 'sugar on shit' as their make-up.   It's just rather depressing, and in a strange way, tiring, when you do come across that, as their outward assertions of love pretty soon reveal their inward nastiness.   Well, lots of people are like that of course, but somehow, it grates, when you are getting the message that God loves you, but I don't, and you are probably condemned to eternal torture.  Gee, thanks for that.

The Christians I have known throughout my life have been pretty honest, kind and caring.  I admit that I don't know any 'strong' Christians (to paraphrase Alien's special term) but on Internet forums the worst seems to come out.

Maybe it's like the usually lovely people who turn into road-rage monsters when they get behind the wheel!

[Alan Burns]

If you had not been brought up in a "faith environment" (a phrase to make me shudder if ever there was one) how do you know that you would have chosen one religious belief or another? Simple: you don't. Buddhism and Jainism are out as they're atheistic (or non-theistic, whichever you prefer).
This is a tacit admission of one of the most pernicious things about religion, the indoctrination of children. You are all but explicitly stating that there was never a time of your life from your egress of the birth canal onwards when you were not veritably bathed in Roman Catholicism - which, surely by one of God's own bona fide miracles, just happens to be the brand of theism that you accept as the right and true one; indeed, the only right and true one. Miracle, Alan? Coincidence? Or something else? You've never not been Catholic so can't be said to have critically weighed up its beliefs on their own, for want of a much better word, merits as a sceptical, rational adult. You were never in a position to choose it freely. You've certainly never contrasted and compared other beliefs systems in a disinterested comparative religion sort of way.

You are making some gross assumptions about me.
I have the freedom to compare my faith system with others, and I have the freedom to choose not to continue with what I have been taught (as most of my peers have).

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I have the freedom to compare my faith system with others, and I have the freedom to choose not to continue with what I have been taught (as most of my peers have).

Not when you've had your critical faculties turned off you haven't.

[Shaker]

You are making some gross assumptions about me.

Whatever assumptions I make can only be based on what I read as written by you.

I have the freedom to compare my faith system with others, and I have the freedom to choose not to continue with what I have been taught (as most of my peers have).

Actually, you have no such freedom, on your own admission - you said recently (I'll try to find the post I'm thinking of - it could well be on this thread but will take some searching for) that you are incapable of viewing the world without believing in a god.

ETA: This is what I was referring to: http://goo.gl/tT5kxb

[SusanDoris]

I note that AB has avoided answering the question about whether he would follow Islam if he had been born to Moslem parents in a Moslem country, or another country where the very dominant religious belief was not Christian. There would not be so much freedom to choose there.

[torridon]

You are making some gross assumptions about me.
I have the freedom to compare my faith system with others, and I have the freedom to choose not to continue with what I have been taught (as most of my peers have).

Maybe, but statistics show that the vast majority of people remain within the belief system of their ambient culture/upbringing. We like to think we are free agents, but the facts demonstrate that in reality we are mostly products moulded by our culture and upbringing.

[Rhiannon]

I don't think that all Christians have 'sugar on shit' as their make-up.   It's just rather depressing, and in a strange way, tiring, when you do come across that, as their outward assertions of love pretty soon reveal their inward nastiness.   Well, lots of people are like that of course, but somehow, it grates, when you are getting the message that God loves you, but I don't, and you are probably condemned to eternal torture.  Gee, thanks for that.

Very much so - one of my closest friends is a Christian and she's miles off some of the stuff on here. What doesn't surprise me is the spite and bile from Sass given how she talks to other posters.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Welcome to this session of the "Blame Man First" club, brought to you by the pessimists, nihilists and misanthropes at Jesus Inc.

Since, according to you there probably is no God every outrage is the work of man. And yet there is a gross shortage of reality about that among your Cardre.

[Brownie]

Sass isn't the only one Rhiannon.  At least she is predictable  .
There are posters on here who truly believe they have knowledge which others do not possess.  They are never wrong!  It hurts them in a way that it would hurt us if someone close to us was offended, if anyone disagrees because they believe their knowledge comes directly from God.  It doesn't seem worthwhile engaging with them unless the conversation is about non-faith stuff.

Most of us don't have those certainties.

I think that Alan said, or at least gave the impression, that he would have been a member of another faith had that been predominant in his cultural upbringing.

(There is no such thing as a Moslem!  Moslem is a word which is offensive to Muslims, it is quite incorrect)

[Maeght]

Rage and envy, innit?

A defensive reaction I think to sometimes perceived and sometimes actual attacks on strongly help beliefs. Sadly threads do often descend into snipping sessions and then anyone who questions or doubts gets tarred with the same brush and it is assumed they are attacking. A shame but not uncommon of course.

[Alan Burns]

I note that AB has avoided answering the question about whether he would follow Islam if he had been born to Moslem parents in a Moslem country, or another country where the very dominant religious belief was not Christian. There would not be so much freedom to choose there.

I agree with you, Susan.  Muslims are generally forbidden to even read the Christian Bible, so I would not have been given much freedom in that situation.  But having been able to compare the Christian religion to Islam have no doubts as to which is closer to the truth.