Author Topic: Searching for GOD... (Read 3756507 times)

Shaker · « **Reply #10825 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:15:07 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:12:28 AM

If you read my post I said that God's love could not be discerned through scientific methodology because it is beyond human understanding.

My earlier posts were meant to draw attention to the limitations of science and encourage people to look beyond the limits of our man made logic to discover the truth that lies beyond.

If we're not supposed to use the tried-and-tested methodology of science, what are we supposed to use to find out this alleged "truth" and how can we ascertain that it actually is true at all?

You'll find that people who understand something about science - quite a few posters here - are already perfectly well aware of its limits. But still, it's spectacularly good at what it does and we have nothing else.

Alan Burns · « **Reply #10826 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:18:30 AM »

Quote from: Shaker on March 07, 2016, 10:49:33 AM

The psychological defences he must have to put up to prevent even the possibility of that ever happening would put the Maginot Line to shame.

But I need no psychological defences now that I have opened up my mind to let God in. My trust in God's love is all I will ever need.

Shaker · « **Reply #10827 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:20:09 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:18:30 AM

But I need no psychological defences now that I have opened up my mind to let God in. My trust in God's love is all I will ever need.

But by your own admission you are not open to the possibility that your belief, while unquestionably a comforting thing for you, is a purely personal affar with no external or objective validity to it.

bluehillside Retd. · « **Reply #10828 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:21:38 AM »

AB,

Quote

If you read my post I said that God's love could not be discerned through scientific methodology because it is beyond human understanding.

Then why bother using the tools of science - rational argument for example - albeit ineptly to make your case? Why not instead say something like, "I have no reason or evidence to support me, but I really, really think that god is real" and leave it at that?

Quote

My earlier posts were meant to draw attention to the limitations of science and encourage people to look beyond the limits of our man made logic to discover the truth that lies beyond.

"Man made" logic eh? Anyways, what method if not for logic would you propose instead to discern this supposed "truth" of yours?

Gordon · « **Reply #10829 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:22:19 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:12:28 AM

If you read my post I said that God's love could not be discerned through scientific methodology because it is beyond human understanding.

In which case how can you, as a human, know this to be true since you also say this 'God's love' is beyond human understand and yet you have reached an understanding of your own about this (that it can't be discerned via science)?

Quote

My earlier posts were meant to draw attention to the limitations of science and encourage people to look beyond the limits of our man made logic to discover the truth that lies beyond.

Nobody here claims that science doesn't have limitations: that it does is one of the reasons it is useful. However, your encouragement ' look beyond the limits of our man made logic to discover the truth that lies beyond' is just another example of your personal incredulity at work again.

BeRational · « **Reply #10830 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:24:30 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:18:30 AM

But I need no psychological defences now that I have opened up my mind to let God in. My trust in God's love is all I will ever need.

But is has made you closed minded.

Do you not think that is a bad thing?

Alan Burns · « **Reply #10831 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:28:28 AM »

Quote from: bluehillside on March 07, 2016, 11:21:38 AM

"Man made" logic eh? Anyways, what method if not for logic would you propose instead to discern this supposed "truth" of yours?

It is quite simple,
Matthew 7:7-8
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Gordon · « **Reply #10832 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:30:42 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:28:28 AM

It is quite simple,
Matthew 7:7-8
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

I just asked: no answer!

Shaker · « **Reply #10833 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:30:59 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:28:28 AM

It is quite simple,
Matthew 7:7-8
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

What about those people for whom this simply didn't work? What went wrong? Did they not ask hard often often enough?

I'm not one of them but a great many non-believers have been believers in the past - several of them here - and have desperately wanted to hold on to their faith. Why did it evaporate all the same?

Alan Burns · « **Reply #10834 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:31:08 AM »

Quote from: BeRational on March 07, 2016, 11:24:30 AM

But is has made you closed minded.

Do you not think that is a bad thing?

Once you have let God into your life, would you really want to throw Him out?

bluehillside Retd. · « **Reply #10835 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:31:14 AM »

AB,

Quote

It is quite simple,
Matthew 7:7-8
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Harry Potter: "And Harry got on his broomstick and flew around a bit."

You've just moved your problem back one step - what method would you propose to establish that these words aren't just a piece of fiction?

Rhiannon · « **Reply #10836 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:32:53 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:28:28 AM

It is quite simple,
Matthew 7:7-8
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

So why earlier on this thread did you say that Christians find it is God who seeks them and not the other way round?

Alan Burns · « **Reply #10837 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:34:33 AM »

Quote from: Gordon on March 07, 2016, 11:30:42 AM

I just asked: no answer!

Try opening the door a bit wider, and remove the blinkers.

Shaker · « **Reply #10838 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:35:28 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:34:33 AM

Try opening the door a bit wider, and remove the blinkers.

So you're saying that people are not asking hard enough for long enough according to you - would that be a fair summary?

Sebastian Toe · « **Reply #10839 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:35:36 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:34:33 AM

Try opening the door a bit wider, and remove the blinkers.

and how precisely does one do those things?

Rhiannon · « **Reply #10840 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:38:03 AM »

Quote from: Shaker on March 07, 2016, 11:30:59 AM

What about those people for whom this simply didn't work? What went wrong? Did they not ask hard often often enough?

I'm not one of them but a great many non-believers have been believers in the past - several of them here - and have desperately wanted to hold on to their faith. Why did it evaporate all the same?

I can put my hand up for this one.

It's probably Satan's fault. Rubbish at keeping him in his place, God is.

Shaker · « **Reply #10841 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:40:07 AM »

I feel a No True Scotsman coming on ...

Gordon · « **Reply #10842 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:40:30 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:34:33 AM

Try opening the door a bit wider, and remove the blinkers.

Don't be daft: I ask for things all the time, so I know how to!

Rhiannon · « **Reply #10843 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:40:45 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on February 20, 2016, 11:37:47 AM

Instead of man seeking God, Christians will find that it is God who seeks them.

Just reminding you, Alan.

Shaker · « **Reply #10844 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:41:45 AM »

I assume that statement also applies to Jews, Muslims, Sikhs etc?

ekim · « **Reply #10845 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:42:58 AM »

Quote from: Rhiannon on March 07, 2016, 11:32:53 AM

So why earlier on this thread did you say that Christians find it is God who seeks them and not the other way round?

?Many are called, few are chosen?

Alan Burns · « **Reply #10846 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:49:44 AM »

Quote from: Rhiannon on March 07, 2016, 11:32:53 AM

So why earlier on this thread did you say that Christians find it is God who seeks them and not the other way round?

It is ultimately a two way thing. God calls people in many ways, but in order to answer that call we still need to let God into our lives. In many cases there will be a crossroads in a person's life when they have the opportunity seek God's help, or go their own way. I recall an artist depicting the "door" which lets God in where the handle to open the door is only on our side.

Rhiannon · « **Reply #10847 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:52:05 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:49:44 AM

It is ultimately a two way thing. God calls people in many ways, but in order to answer that call we still need to let God into our lives. In many cases there will be a crossroads in a person's life when they have the opportunity seek God's help, or go their own way. I recall an artist depicting the "door" which lets God in where the handle to open the door is only on our side.

Holman Hunt - Jesus in a Nightie. I mean, The Light of the World.

Doesn't make it factual though. It's a painting.

Ricky Spanish · « **Reply #10848 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:53:04 AM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 07, 2016, 11:18:30 AM

But I need no psychological defences now that I have opened up my mind to let God in. My trust in God's love is all I will ever need.

Then you slammed that door into your mind, locked it, bolted it and for good measure welded it shut so that no other thoughts can enter it..

Alan Burns · « **Reply #10849 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:56:29 AM »

Quote from: Shaker on March 07, 2016, 11:35:28 AM

So you're saying that people are not asking hard enough for long enough according to you - would that be a fair summary?

I do not think it will work if you do it as a sceptical test for God, because your mind will still not be open to allow Him in.

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Author Topic: Searching for GOD... (Read 3756507 times)

Rhiannon

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Rhiannon

Rhiannon