Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I can't possibly be open minded about the existence of someone with whom I have a personal relationship.

With whom you believe you're in a personal relationship Alan. And that belief - like any other - could be mistaken.

In order to doubt the existence of God I would need to declare myself insane.

Well...

Actually, all you'd need to be is sensible. If though you insist on your certainty then you're also claiming infallibility - which is even more worrying.

[Alan Burns]

If though you insist on your certainty then you're also claiming infallibility

All I am saying is that God has made Himself known to me and I am unable to ignore this.

[Shaker]

All I am saying is that God has made Himself known to me and I am unable to ignore this.

Several questions present themselves at this point.

How did this alleged revelation occur? What form did it take?

How do you claim to know - what made/makes you  believe - that it was God at all?

Doesn't a claim of being contacted by the creator of the universe itself come across as a rather, well, hubristic sort of thing to claim?

Although I'm not a football follower by any measure of means I've met both Kevin Keegan and John Fashanu over the years (both extremely nice chaps, I might add). It's not much of a claim to fame but it is what it is. Claiming to be in touch with the Almighty - well, that's in a bit of a different league when it comes to bragging rights, isn't it?

[ekim]

I believe in souls, but I am not sure they are the same thing.

The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

All I am saying is that God has made Himself known to me and I am unable to ignore this.

That is your belief, yes - but what makes you think it to be an infallible one?

[Rhiannon]

I can't possibly be open minded about the existence of someone with whom I have a personal relationship.  In order to doubt the existence of God I would need to declare myself insane.

And you know beyond doubt that this relationship isn't generated purely through the workings of your brain how, exactly?

[Alan Burns]

And you know beyond doubt that this relationship isn't generated purely through the workings of your brain how, exactly?

No, it comes from the awareness of the soul, which I believe is not restricted to the physical content of our brain cells.

[Shaker]

No, it comes from the awareness of the soul, which I believe is not restricted to the physical content of our brain cells.

Alan, you're simply shifting your assertions from one place to another.

[Alan Burns]

Although I'm not a football follower by any measure of means I've met both Kevin Keegan and John Fashanu over the years (both extremely nice chaps, I might add). It's not much of a claim to fame but it is what it is. Claiming to be in touch with the Almighty - well, that's in a bit of a different league when it comes to bragging rights, isn't it?

But Kevin Keegan and John Fashanu were not solely responsible for bringing you into existence.
My perception is that God has brought each one of us into existence and in doing so has a parent-child relationship with every human being.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rhi,

And you know beyond doubt that this relationship isn't generated purely through the workings of your brain how, exactly?

Maybe his "soul" told him so?

There seems to be a correlation between AB's certainty and the intellectual impoverishment of his position. If I were "God" I think I'd call him into my study for a stiff word about bringing Him into such disrepute - why on earth (or off it) would He want an emissary possessed of such deep irrationalism?   

God: "Alan, come on in. Take a seat. Cigar? Oh, ok - maybe not. Now then old son, please don't take this the wrong way but, well, you know...stop. Just stop.

Seriously. Just stop. See, I'm God in case you hadn't noticed and part of the job spec means I like encouraging people to realise that."

Alan (for it is he): "I know God, and I'm your little helper in that fine endeavour (Ooh, are they Mr Kipling French Fancies? Don't mind if I do - ta everso). That's why, you know, I keep pitching up on an mb to tell everyone all about my relationship with you!"

God: "Yes, well...about that. Look, thing is, if you want people to agree with you you'll need to smarten up your act a bit I'm afraid."

Alan: "Really God? (Ooh another one! Are you sure? Thank-you - I prefer the mini Cherry Bakewells to be honest – shouldn't you have known that by the way? Oh well...) So what should I be doing?"

God: "OFFS! Look, you can't just demand that people be open to the possibility that I exist but at the same time tell them that you're not open the possibility that I don't. It just makes you look, well, a bit dim to be frank and that's not doing me any favours over there.

Oh, and while you're at it, will you PLEASE look up "logical fallacy" and when you have stop trotting them out with such regularity? You're like one of those Crimean war soldiers dressed in a bright red jacket - why make yourself such an easy target for people smarter than you are?"

Alan (a bit crestfallen): "Oh I see. So all this time I've been alienating potential converts and not recruiting them at all?"   

God (thumps table, upsetting the last few French Fancies): "Exactly!"

Alan - goes quiet for a bit, then: "Ooh, ooh, here's one - how about, "all that science and reason stuff that undoes me, I just can't imagine that it's right!" Will that do?"

God (groans): "OK, that's it. Just take up macramé or get yourself an allotment or something willya? Really, you're doing me no favours at all here. And no, you can't have a third French Fancy - GET OUT!"

Alan slopes off, mumbling "I would've preferred the mini Cherry Bakewells in any case" leaving God leaning on his desk with His head in His hands and moaning "Oh Me"...

[Shaker]

But Kevin Keegan and John Fashanu were not solely responsible for bringing you into existence.

My parents were responsible for that in my case.

My perception is that God has brought each one of us into existence and in doing so has a parent-child relationship with every human being.

Perception ... well, that's all it is isn't it?

[torridon]

I can't possibly be open minded about the existence of someone with whom I have a personal relationship.  In order to doubt the existence of God I would need to declare myself insane.

'Insane' would be going too far I think. Yours is a fantastic claim, but it's not the only one, people the world over make fantastic claims, from aborigines communing with ancestors who are long dead to claims of being abducted by aliens.  You don't need to be mentally ill to enter a state of altered consciousness induced by intoxicants, psychoactive substances, or even just ritual or strong beliefs as in your case (I presume). But alongside your own personal experience you can grow a broader holistic understanding of human nature by coming to terms with the fact that other people have personal experience that differs significantly from yours and your overarching worldview needs to take account of that diversity.

[torridon]

No, it comes from the awareness of the soul, which I believe is not restricted to the physical content of our brain cells.

You have a belief in the soul, not an awareness.  As you should know by now, your concept of the soul has no grounds in empirical science, so it is just one of your favourite beliefs, that's all.

[ippy]

A B, can also stand for "A" board, conjuers up my picture anyone as impervious to reason as you are Alan.

See you soon in anytown wearing your full regalia, again.

The main thing I have gained from reading your posts is that most of my potty ideas are nowhere as bad as I thought they might be and it's quite normal to believe in Star Trek, Hail Spock!

ippy

[Leonard James]

Is there any Christian here (other than Alan) who feels he/she has a personal relationship with "God"?

[Alan Burns]

My parents were responsible for that in my case.

Your parents operated the machinery that set things in motion, but who (in the profound words of Psalm 139) knit you together in your mother's womb?

[jjohnjil]

Your parents operated the machinery that set things in motion, but who (in the profound words of Psalm 139) knit you together in your mother's womb?

FFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Is this bloke for real!

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

Your parents operated the machinery that set things in motion, but who (in the profound words of Psalm 139) knit you together in your mother's womb?

Um, about that insane thing you mentioned earlier...

[Shaker]

Your parents operated the machinery that set things in motion, but who (in the profound words of Psalm 139) knit you together in your mother's womb?

Not a who, a what - developmental biology.

Always seeing a who - personality, consciousness, intention - in entirely impersonal, blind natural processes seems to be one of the essential hallmarks of a theistic view of the world.

[SusanDoris]

 bluehillside #11324



And you know, I just don't know how AB can continue to write what he does without inwardly cringing and wincing!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Susan,

bluehillside #11324

Aw bless you - I'm glad someone appreciates my efforts here!

And you know, I just don't know how AB can continue to write what he does without inwardly cringing and wincing!

I know - he seems to be Teflon-coated though...

[Shaker]

Aw bless you - I'm glad someone appreciates my efforts here!

That applies to more than just Susan!

[Khatru]

My perception is that God has brought each one of us into existence and in doing so has a parent-child relationship with every human being.

What do you think of a parent who tortures their child?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

That applies to more than just Susan!

Aw stop it now...

Be funny if it was actually Alan's "Devil" who's pulling his strings so he makes such lousy arguments for God that it actively drives away potential converts though. Now there's a thought ; -

[Alan Burns]

Not a who, a what - developmental biology.

Always seeing a who - personality, consciousness, intention - in entirely impersonal, blind natural processes seems to be one of the essential hallmarks of a theistic view of the world.

But could the blind, natural processes of biology create the amazing entity of conscious self awareness which became you?  Biology built the machine, but who installed the driver?