Searching for GOD...

[wigginhall]

I like that one Wiggie, the graffiti that I cant forget was someone had drawn two cubes and wrote under them "Bollocks to Picasso", makes me smile whenever anyone even quotes such profound graffiti as your billion flies, it's always there.

ippy

I like that.  It used to be a million flies can't be wrong, but you know, inflation, the EU, and so on.

[ippy]

I like that.  It used to be a million flies can't be wrong, but you know, inflation, the EU, and so on.

And we still get people that think graffiti isn't an intellectual pursuit, what do they know?

ippy

[jjohnjil]

jj,

Really? Why?

Why?  Because by reading his posts, it is very clear he knows that the atheists here are talking sense but, as I said to Susan, they haves a virtual gun pointing at their heads.

Neither of them are the idiots that their idiotic posts make them out to be.

[jjohnjil]

Okay, but why does he continue to post here, I wonder? It must be for a personal, confidence-boosting reason, I think, as he must by now know he's not going to add any new recruits to the fold he occupies - on the contrary, he is far morelikely to drive them away, in the same way that those (extremely boring!) street evangelists do.  If he has some unfulfilled wish to break through the impenetrable,
, suffocatingly cottonwool barrier, then he shows no signs of so doing. Maybe he is in some wayenvious of those who know there is no God and that all our lives and strengths are 100% human and have evolved.No, I don't think I'm sorry for him any more; I wonder whether he has reached a stage here where he feels he is being really clever in maintaining his position.

I don't think he or Hope feel they are being clever, I should think they feel embarrassed at having to defend the indefensible.  I can't say the same for Sassy or TW, they obviously believe that everyone else is an idiot.
 

[bluehillside Retd.]

jj,

Why?  Because by reading his posts, it is very clear he knows that the atheists here are talking sense but, as I said to Susan, they haves a virtual gun pointing at their heads.

Neither of them are the idiots that their idiotic posts make them out to be.

Cognitive dissonance in other words. That's what always floors me - they'd never for example buy an insurance policy from someone whose case was a flimsy as the case for their religious beliefs, yet in respect of the latter the feeblest bit of multiply re-translated hearsay is enough to rationalise unshakeable convictions that flatly contradict everything we understand about the way the universe actually works.

Weird innit. 

[ekim]

Okay, but why does he continue to post here, I wonder? It must be for a personal, confidence-boosting reason, I think, as he must by now know he's not going to add any new recruits to the fold he occupies - on the contrary, he is far morelikely to drive them away, in the same way that those (extremely boring!) street evangelists do.  If he has some unfulfilled wish to break through the impenetrable,
, suffocatingly cottonwool barrier, then he shows no signs of so doing. Maybe he is in some wayenvious of those who know there is no God and that all our lives and strengths are 100% human and have evolved.No, I don't think I'm sorry for him any more; I wonder whether he has reached a stage here where he feels he is being really clever in maintaining his position.

Perhaps he has read Matt 5 - 12  ... paraphrased as ....  "Divine bliss is for you who in the cause of Truth, endure the insults, harassment and lies of others; - so be joyful and delighted because what you receive whilst in the Divine state is wholly fulfilling.  Prophets before you were similarly persecuted." .... and is bolstered by this.

[jjohnjil]

Perhaps he has read Matt 5 - 12  ... paraphrased as ....  "Divine bliss is for you who in the cause of Truth, endure the insults, harassment and lies of others; - so be joyful and delighted because what you receive whilst in the Divine state is wholly fulfilling.  Prophets before you were similarly persecuted." .... and is bolstered by this.

Yes, it's all in the Big Book of Magic, the more you suffer, the surer you can be that your passage to Heaven will be guaranteed!

Carrots and sticks all the way.

[Brownie]

If you suffer silently.  Most people suffer very loudly complete with cussing.

[wigginhall]

If you suffer silently.  Most people suffer very loudly complete with cussing.

That's where my oldest friend went wrong, when he died slowly from cancer.   He kept shouting and crying  and swearing about it, so it looks like he's missed out on heaven.   Damn.

[Alan Burns]

Yes, it's all in the Big Book of Magic, the more you suffer, the surer you can be that your passage to Heaven will be guaranteed!

Carrots and sticks all the way.

Christianity is not about carrots and sticks - it is about accepting God's forgiveness, the forgiveness earned through our saviour Jesus Christ.

[Shaker]

Forgiveness for what, exactly?

Should you be foolish enough to take Old Testament tales as true, one rather thinks that if there's any forgiveness to be sought it should be God seeking it.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

Christianity is not about carrots and sticks - it is about accepting God's forgiveness, the forgiveness earned through our saviour Jesus Christ.

That is the carrot.

Now, if only we had a stick...

...oh, Hell-o...

[Nearly Sane]

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/i8yV7sN

[Brownie]

That's where my oldest friend went wrong, when he died slowly from cancer.   He kept shouting and crying  and swearing about it, so it looks like he's missed out on heaven.   Damn.

Nonsense, of course he hasn't.  I was speaking with irony, it obviously didn't work.   

[SweetPea]

He gets lots of attention.

Only because everyone gives him attention.

It was exactly the same with Nick Marks, people moaned about why he kept posting but they continued to argue with him.

I find it ironic too that Alan is accused of all sorts including quote-mining which lots of other posters do (including myself at times) but they never get picked up for it.

Len, I'm with you on this one.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

AB,

It's not that "numbers alone" are not a valid proof, but rather that numbers at all are not a valid proof. If you think otherwise, then you must allow the same concession to muslims - and there are more of them than there are Christians, so if you really think that truth is the outcome of a popularity contest even partially you lose.

But you are an "oddball" (to use your term) in the sense that you trust your personal opinion over the overwhelming consensus of the findings of various relevant disciplines, most notably neuroscience. Moreover there are plenty of Christians too who don't use the rationale on which you rely. 

That's not to say that outliers are necessarily wrong, but it is to say that the personal opinions you offer here are evidentially worthless because they fail entirely to deal with the reason and evidence that undoes them. Endless repetition doesn't help you with that, so an "oddball" you must remain until you finally manage to rebut the prevailing understanding of consciousness.

Nurse! He's got the bearskin rug over his head again, and using words such as neuroscience,universe and cognitive dissonance shamanic ally again!

[bluehillside Retd.]

SP,

I find it ironic too that Alan is accused of all sorts including quote-mining which lots of other posters do (including myself at times) but they never get picked up for it.

Than name them. Note though that "quote mining" and "quoting" are not the same thing.

[SweetPea]

SP,

Than name them. Note though that "quote mining" and "quoting" are not the same thing.

Ok, I'll give you that. Just checked the definition of 'quote mining' and it's not something I do.... I 'quote'. But I think Alan does too. I wouldn't say he quote mines. It's all perception.

[Alan Burns]

Forgiveness for what, exactly?

None of us are immune from sin

[Sassy]

AB,

Just out of interest, do you think that the truth claims of a muslim would also be "backed up by the millions of sincere devout" muslims who also think they've "witnessed to their faith in words and deeds", or do you think that the argumentum ad populum fallacy ceases to be a fallacy only in respect of your own faith?

Is there really a window for comparison?

Did they have a saviour or a covenant with God?

I can see nothing that would deem you able to make a comparison by any nature.

[Sassy]

Hi Susan

I think the problem that all (or most) religious people have is that all religions have a built in carrot and stick method of keeping them in line.

If that was true then clearly it isn't working.
Do you think the carrot and stick method is a myth created by atheists which they cannot show the evidence?

Although none of them ever admit it, they are too scared to contradict what they've been told their god wants them to say. Whether or not they believe it - and I very much doubt that many do - they have to do as they're told. 

Contradict what they have been told by their God? So you believe God does speak to the believers? Thought not, so you really mean they are too frightened to disobey their God? Why should they be frightened to disobey if as you and other atheist say they do not really know for sure he exists? Then you come up with they won't admit it?
Not sensible is it? Not logical either.  The truth could be that knowing Gods love and having a relationship with him there is nothing to fear. Maybe you and others fear the truth that God exists and believers know him.

If a gunman held a gun to your head and told you that if you didn't do as you're told he would kill you, you would do it.  They are in the same boat.  AB has to shut his ears to any argument because of fear.  After all, the Bible actually tells them to fear God!

Didn't they hold a sword to Christ and give him ample opportunity to deny the truth and not die.
Is a sword or the cross any different to the gun being held and knowing you will die if you do not do as others want you to?
Alan has no fear of God, he has no fear of anything because he knows God loves him.
As I said, there really is more chance of you being afraid he might right and God exists.

Hope is a very intelligent guy and I suspect Alan is too but unbelievers like us cannot put ourselves in that unenviable position of fearing the monster in the sky.

Monster in the Sky?  I guess you create fears and unrealities about God to help your unbelief. You cannot believe in God because you want to portray him as bad. Intelligence.... who really is intelligent?  Why do you believe some intelligent people do not find God to be a 'monster in the sky'?

So, as much as he makes you want to tear your hair out (that's why I'm bald) you have to feel sorry for him and all the other 'strong' theists.

Why would it make you feel anything?  Do you think it is the fact you do not see as they are able. That they know something you obviously do not?

[Sassy]

Okay, but why does he continue to post here, I wonder? It must be for a personal, confidence-boosting reason, I think, as he must by now know he's not going to add any new recruits to the fold he occupies - on the contrary, he is far morelikely to drive them away, in the same way that those (extremely boring!) street evangelists do. If he has some unfulfilled wish to break through the impenetrable,
, suffocatingly cottonwool barrier, then he shows no signs of so doing. Maybe he is in some wayenvious of those who know there is no God and that all our lives and strengths are 100% human and have evolved.No, I don't think I'm sorry for him any more; I wonder whether he has reached a stage here where he feels he is being really clever in maintaining his position.

Do you believe you have done anything other than dig at Alan and think your atheist disposition more enlightening to theists by such comments?

Could the same not be said of yourself and other atheists? Why do you feel the need to comment on religious issues as an atheist?

What fold is that which he occupies here?
Tell me what you believe to be beneficial to any persons ego but your own in what you have written?

Drive who away? You and the other atheists are still here so who exactly are you referring to?

ENVIOUS is that meant to be funny?  I find it funny that without evidence you believe that you live is 100% human and evolved. I believe it requires more faith than Alan believing in God. After all, there is no way you can prove it to yourself, is there?

Do you feel clever maintaining your position and beliefs?

May be next time you will try answering on an intellectual level and not a condescending and put down one.

[Sassy]

Susan,

But even then he'd have to be doing something to shore it up. Instead he just keeps pointing at it - essentially, "Yeah, but it goes to eleven!"*

* Nigel Tufnel, "This Is Spinal Tap".

I hardly think Susan was including yourself or Ippy in what she said.

[Sassy]

Do you know what I smell... Atheists, without answers who are having a self-pity party by stroking their egos by insulting the person who makes them feel so inadequate in their own beliefs.

Doesn't matter how many gang up... you will still be a bunch who got it wrong.

[SusanDoris]

Re #11,438
When I wrote, 'To continue the analogy', it didn't feel quite right ... I  should have written 'metaphore', ....