Searching for GOD...

[ippy]

Do you know what I smell... Atheists, without answers who are having a self-pity party by stroking their egos by insulting the person who makes them feel so inadequate in their own beliefs.

Doesn't matter how many gang up... you will still be a bunch who got it wrong.

Don't forget Sass, Topnotch signs they've got a websight.

ippy

[Sebastian Toe]

Do you know what I smell... Atheists, without answers who are having a self-pity party by stroking their egos by insulting the person who makes them feel so inadequate in their own beliefs.

Doesn't matter how many gang up... you will still be a bunch who got it wrong.

Do you know what I smell? .....Bullshit!
People who think they have all the answers (and especially if they can quote them in bold type), who are having a self congratulation party by stroking their egos because they are so insecure in their own belief bubble.

Doesn't matter how you you dress it up...you will still be the one who got it wrong (did anyone mention gravity and heavy spacesuits?    )

[Shaker]

None of us are immune from sin

As a matter of fact anybody is immune from sin who denies the definition and concept of sin in the first place, as I do.

[Stranger]

Christianity is not about carrots and sticks - it is about accepting God's forgiveness, the forgiveness earned through our saviour Jesus Christ.

Forgiveness for being what God made us. 

It really is a very silly idea. God makes us so we can't be perfect, then blames us for not being and then offers to forgive us if (and only if) we accept this utterly daft story.

[Shaker]

"Created sick, commanded to be well" as Hitch used to quote.

[Alan Burns]

As a matter of fact anybody is immune from sin who denies the definition and concept of sin in the first place, as I do.

I need to clarify:

None of us are immune from sin in the eyes of God.

[Shaker]

I need to clarify:

None of us are immune from sin in the eyes of God.

The clarification doesn't alter the import of what I said, though. Sin by the very definition of the word is wrongdoing in the eyes of a god; if you don't believe in any gods, there are no gods to dictate wrongdoing, which then becomes - entirely as it should be - a matter of the happiness or otherwise of sentient beings.

[Stranger]

None of us are immune from sin in the eyes of God.

This god of yours should be blaming itself for doing such a bad job of making us, then.

[Sassy]

Do you know what I smell? .....Bullshit!
People who think they have all the answers (and especially if they can quote them in bold type), who are having a self congratulation party by stroking their egos because they are so insecure in their own belief bubble.

Doesn't matter how you you dress it up...you will still be the one who got it wrong (did anyone mention gravity and heavy spacesuits?    )

Hardly suprising can hardly escape standing by yourself, can you?
Just keep that Bullsh*t upwind with yourself.

Pity you don't read everything written. Catch up is something you will always be playing and how to remove your foot from your mouth... 

[Sassy]

Forgiveness for being what God made us. 

It really is a very silly idea. God makes us so we can't be perfect, then blames us for not being and then offers to forgive us if (and only if) we accept this utterly daft story.

I suppose if you robbed a bank you would find someone else to blame.
Adam first to blame someone else. Seems a trait most  men cannot resist copying.

King James Bible
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

If someone gave you poison to drink would you drink it?

Seems to me atheists cannot take responsibility for their own actions. Is it any wonder the blame everyone but themselves?

[Sebastian Toe]

If someone gave you poison to drink would you drink it?

If someone gave you a cup of coffee/tea would you drink it?

[Sassy]

This god of yours should be blaming itself for doing such a bad job of making us, then.

Why? where are you forced to anything but your own free will.  He didn't make a bad job of making anything.
In fact there was no error. You get to choose what you believe as well as how you behave.
Seems you are hell bent on blaming everything and everyone but yourself for your own mistakes.
Tell me, do you live a perfect life. Do you never make mistakes? Seems you want to blame God for the way you are.
But if you do not believe in God, why are you not perfect?

Guess you have to take blame in the absence of you having any faith in God.

[Sassy]

If someone gave you a cup of coffee/tea would you drink it?

Depends on who the someone is and if it was poisoned.
My question was clear... if someone gave you poison to drink would you drink it.
Adam knew what he was doing when he ate the fruit. Think on!

[Sebastian Toe]

Depends on who the someone is and if it was poisoned.

.....someone from whom you have accepted a drink from in the past -
how do you determine if it is poisoned or not?

[Stranger]

Why? where are you forced to anything but your own free will.  He didn't make a bad job of making anything.
In fact there was no error. You get to choose what you believe as well as how you behave.
Seems you are hell bent on blaming everything and everyone but yourself for your own mistakes.
Tell me, do you live a perfect life. Do you never make mistakes? Seems you want to blame God for the way you are.
But if you do not believe in God, why are you not perfect?

Guess you have to take blame in the absence of you having any faith in God.

Wow, I see your incoherent rants haven't got any better in the time I've been away...

Firstly, I don't feel the need to blame anybody for the way I am - I'm just pointing out the absurdity of the Christian story.

Secondly, the notion of free will in the presence of an omnipotent, omniscient creator god is ridiculous.

Thirdly, even if it wasn't, a failure rate of 100% is not indicative of any kind of free choice. More like a design flaw...

[floo]

Depends on who the someone is and if it was poisoned.
My question was clear... if someone gave you poison to drink would you drink it.
Adam knew what he was doing when he ate the fruit. Think on!

Sticking two  fingers up to the evil deity who wanted to keep them in ignorance of its crimes! Good for Adam!

[ippy]

It might be better for you Sass to leave this thread although the subject isn't one of the deepest subjects discussed here on this forum but it's a subject that's obviously beyond you.

I noticed that you've tried to cut out the assertions and I couldn't help noting that you would probably burst if you were prevented from doing so; I see you're asserting at full blast again.

ippy

[Brownie]

Going off at a tangent (& most of us, including me, believe the story of Adam and Eve to be allegorical), it has always struck me that Eve gets most of the blame, for being a temptress.  Yet according to the story, Satan spent a long time wearing her down, he was very convincing.  When she offered the 'fruit' to Adam - he just said, "Alright''.  Speaks volumes!

[Alan Burns]

Going off at a tangent (& most of us, including me, believe the story of Adam and Eve to be allegorical), it has always struck me that Eve gets most of the blame, for being a temptress.  Yet according to the story, Satan spent a long time wearing her down, he was very convincing.  When she offered the 'fruit' to Adam - he just said, "Alright''.  Speaks volumes!

I agree, this story does speak volumes about human nature

[Nearly Sane]

Going off at a tangent (& most of us, including me, believe the story of Adam and Eve to be allegorical), it has always struck me that Eve gets most of the blame, for being a temptress.  Yet according to the story, Satan spent a long time wearing her down, he was very convincing.  When she offered the 'fruit' to Adam - he just said, "Alright''.  Speaks volumes!

To be fair, if my wife says here's a tasty apple I would be far more likely.to go, 'Thanks hon' than of a serpent suddenly went 'Go scrumping!'

[Alan Burns]

the notion of free will in the presence of an omnipotent, omniscient creator god is ridiculous.

I do not see why.
It is generally accepted that any evolutionary process could not create an entity with free will because it would be built upon the deterministic properties of material.
Anything which has true free will, unconstrained by material determinism, would have to come from a source which itself has free will.

[Nearly Sane]

I do not see why.
It is generally accepted that any evolutionary process could not create an entity with free will because it would be built upon the deterministic properties of material.
Anything which has true free will, unconstrained by material determinism, would have to come from a source which itself has free will.

Actually it isn't generally accepted because the very definition of free will is difficult. You have had this explained and discussed in detail here so is it that you really don't understand it or are you actually as it appears to some, lying?

As for omniscience, it precludes free will. And as for your god having free will, whatever that could mean, could your god act in any other way than you think it has?

[Alan Burns]

As for omniscience, it precludes free will.

No it does not.
It is generally understood that God exists in a timeless dimension which is beyond our understanding.  So although God can be aware of everything we do from this timeless dimension, it still allows people to exercise their free will.  God can see the finished painting of our lives, but it is we who do the brush strokes.

[Nearly Sane]

No it does not.
It is generally understood that God exists in a timeless dimension which is beyond our understanding.  So although God can be aware of everything we do from this timeless dimension, it still allows people to exercise their free will.  God can see the finished painting of our lives, but it is we who do the brush strokes.

Interesting that you cut out the first part of the post covering the possibility of you lying. Feels a bit dishonest to me.

As to your 'explanation' if your god is omniscient, then everything we do would be known and could be no other way.

[Stranger]

It is generally accepted that any evolutionary process could not create an entity with free will because it would be built upon the deterministic properties of material.

No, it isn't. There isn't even a generally accepted definition of free will and the way most people think of it is contradictory.

Anything which has true free will, unconstrained by material determinism, would have to come from a source which itself has free will.

The word "material" is irrelevant. Either our method of making decisions is deterministic or it isn't. To the extent that it isn't, it is random (which is the only other option). I'm not sure about you but I wouldn't regard a random element in my "free" choices would make them any more free.

In order for a decision to be truly mine, it should be determined by who I am. Who I am, of course, is determined by what I was initially and my subsequent experience. An omnipotent and omniscient creator would have control over both of those and hence all my decisions.

Note that whether I consider myself as entirely physical or I think I have some sort of soul makes no difference at all to the logic.