Searching for GOD...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Science depends on hard and fast definitions.
Dawkins suggesting that we can be flexible with science is merely an appeal to allow his category confusion and to reinforce his overlapping magisterial Schlick.
It also makes an appeal for linguistic piracy and scientific imperialism.
If Dawkins is against essentialist tendencies in science you can bet they are there for a good reason.


That will be a 'no' then...

Well I suppose Dawkins is massaging evolution to fit an extreme take on phyletic gradualism.

[Sebastian Toe]

That will be a 'no' then...

When you prod the class clown........

...this is what you get...

Well I suppose Dawkins is massaging evolution to fit an extreme take on phyletic gradualism.

 

[ippy]

I just wanted to share today's Lent reflection from Bishop Robert Barron:

Lent Day 36
Flowering in the Desert

People who live in the desert speak of the flowering of the desert that takes place practically overnight.

Often we are forced to go through desert times where there doesn’t seem to be any possibility of flowering. Religiously intentional people will do so purposely and consciously, but most people are drawn through it quite against their will.
D
I knew a woman who endured a terrible depression. Depression is something of an epidemic in our country. There are all sorts of reasons for it: physiological, psychological, experiential, spiritual—but however it is produced, it is awful.

This woman was in that sort of state for an extended period of time. She came to see me and asked what it could possibly mean. I encouraged her to read the great desert texts of the Bible, especially Isaiah, that tell us flowers bloom precisely in the desert.

In time, and after much study, she became a therapist and now helps to guide others through their deserts.

The apostle James also talks about waiting for new life to spring forth: “Be patient, my brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer awaits the precious yield of the soil. He looks forward to it patiently while the soil receives the winter and the spring rains” (James 5:7).

There is so much packed into that image. The farmer watches the plants and crops grow, but he doesn’t fully grasp how this happens. The gestation takes place silently and in secret, below the ground. There is a time when a beautiful plant, exultant in the sun, is nothing more than a seed, buried under a foot of earth. There’s nothing beautiful about it, nothing impressive when it is buried in the earth.

So too are we during our desert periods.

What is the worst thing that a farmer could do? Pick at the plant impatiently, trying to hurry its growth. It takes just as much time as it takes. And what else is required? Winter and spring rains. What is more obnoxious, more disagreeable than winter rain? But without it, there will be no growth.

So the depressions, setbacks, failures, sufferings of our lives are like winter rains.

Do we trust in the work of the divine cultivator?

Why?

ippy

[Alan Burns]

I take it everything is fine then?

You have the hotline to God so I await the response.

So the next thing will be to love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbour as yourself. 
But not many people can achieve these goals.
The important thing is that you try your best, and God will help you.
But as you come closer to God, you may well find that there are some things which still need to be forgiven.
Good luck - I will say some prayers for you.

[Alan Burns]

Twee and simplistic waffle sums it up nicely.

I have to say that you vastly underestimate the power of prayer coupled with reading the scriptures.

[ippy]

So the next thing will be to love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbour as yourself. 
But not many people can achieve these goals.
The important thing is that you try your best, and God will help you.
But as you come closer to God, you may well find that there are some things which still need to be forgiven.
Good luck - I will say some prayers for you.

Alan you sure have a vivid imagination, still it obviously keeps you off of the streets and happy.

ippy

[Rhiannon]

I have to say that you vastly underestimate the power of prayer coupled with reading the scriptures.

You vastly underestimate how pathetic that sounds.

[Rhiannon]

Twee and simplistic waffle sums it up nicely.

You left out 'dangerous'.

[Shaker]

I have to say that you vastly underestimate the power of prayer coupled with reading the scriptures.

I can't say that I'm seeing a tremendous amount of evidence of this alleged power over on the prayer thread

[Rhiannon]

I can't say that I'm seeing a tremendous amount of evidence of this alleged power over on the prayer thread

It's all evidence; God gives us what we need and not what we want, remember.

[Maeght]

I have to say that you vastly underestimate the power of prayer coupled with reading the scriptures.

No Alan, you didn't have to say that. 

[Maeght]

You left out 'dangerous'.

It can be certainly.

[BeRational]

I have to say that you vastly underestimate the power of prayer coupled with reading the scriptures.

It doesn't seem to be helping your friend very much.

Why is she not up and well and walking around if your God is so loving and responsive to prayer?

[Alan Burns]

Quote from: Alan Burns on March 17, 2016, 08:06:36 PM

    I have to say that you vastly underestimate the power of prayer coupled with reading the scriptures.

You vastly underestimate how pathetic that sounds.

It is based on personal experiences which can't be written off as confirmation bias.

Every major episode in my life and every crisis have been met with amazing answers to prayer.  Sometimes the prayers are answered in a dramatic way, sometimes in a less dramatic way by being given resources to cope.

[Stranger]

It is based on personal experiences which can't be written off as confirmation bias.

Every major episode in my life and every crisis have been met with amazing answers to prayer.  Sometimes the prayers are answered in a dramatic way, sometimes in a less dramatic way by being given resources to cope.

Of course you always get an answer; you pray and then whatever happens, you call it the answer. You even indicate it your claim above; if nothing at all happens you think you've been "given resources to cope".

Your faith may well give you those resources but prayer has never been shown to have any external effect.

[Leonard James]

Of course you always get an answer; you pray and then whatever happens, you call it the answer. You even indicate it your claim above; if nothing at all happens you think you've been "given resources to cope".

Your faith may well give you those resources but prayer has never been shown to have any external effect.

All very true. Wake up and face the truth, Alan.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

So the next thing will be to love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbour as yourself. 
But not many people can achieve these goals.
The important thing is that you try your best, and God will help you.
But as you come closer to God, you may well find that there are some things which still need to be forgiven.
Good luck - I will say some prayers for you.

Hand about, you said he wanted to forgive me and I said no problem if he wants to. Now you say I might need more forgiving.

And what do you mean by "the next thing" why do I have to do anything else.

[torridon]

You vastly underestimate how pathetic that sounds.

It is based on personal experiences which can't be written off as confirmation bias.

Every major episode in my life and every crisis have been met with amazing answers to prayer.  Sometimes the prayers are answered in a dramatic way, sometimes in a less dramatic way by being given resources to cope.

Not bias ?  I had to do a double take when I read that.  It's far from the only issue, that affects otherwise clear thinking, but it certainly goes a long way.

You claim that there is a supreme cosmic being that created the whole unverse and everything in it.  No matter that science in three hundred years has not found any hard evidence to suppport such a hypothesis. So maybe it is hidden from us.  But this Being wants to communicate with H. Sapiens on planet Earth, but only does so through secret means to special individuals seemingly, using some sort of telepathy, so that again, he remains otherwise hidden.  So here you are, one of the lucky ones, you have the ear of this being with unlimited powers, who can create a cosmos out of a moment of willpower, who could rewrite the Periodic Table 25 trillion times every nanosecond; and what do you do ? you beseech this awesome being to use his powers to do trifling personal favours for you.  No matter that a million people are dying every year due to malaria that this being could eradicate with a wave of his hand.  No requests are made to restabilise the climate, or eliminate hunger or supply us with a cure for Ebola or cancer or give us a formula to reverse dementia.  How about an early warning every time an earthquake is about to strike a densely populated city ? that would be nice dear God.  Somehow these prayers always go unanswered, or maybe believers by and large don't even bother to pray for anything worthy beyond their own particular lives.  It's almost as if everything revolves around the believer.

[SusanDoris]

Torridon #11840

Super post. 

[Shaker]

Yup, a peach, that one.

[wigginhall]

Excellent post, torridon.   It's kind of sad to read AB's post, 'every major episode in my life ... has been met with amazing answers'.    It's like an exercise in narcissism.   Me-me-me - yet I thought Christians were supposed to think of their neighbour. 

You also get the sense that the amazing answers are infinitely elastic.   If I get cancer, pray for recovery, and it doesn't happen, well, God knew that I needed to not recover.

[Enki]

Torridon,

Excellent post, which, for me, exposes the utter banality of Alan's post(11836).

[wigginhall]

Banal, and empty, really.   Bloody hell, a lot of my friends have died or have become seriously ill in recent years, one of them with advancing dementia, another with motor neurone.   Will God really reverse this?   Well, if he did, it would be headline news around the world.  It's kiddology. 

[floo]

Banal, and empty, really.   Bloody hell, a lot of my friends have died or have become seriously ill in recent years, one of them with advancing dementia, another with motor neurone.   Will God really reverse this?   Well, if he did, it would be headline news around the world.  It's kiddology.

Exactly!

I have asked this question many times, but will ask it again, although not in much hope of getting an answer.

When prayers were asked by well meaning people for my atheist husband when he was at death's door after his brain haemorrhage in 2006, and a seriously ill Christian 'born again' friend, why did my husband survive and our friend die?

Before someone answers, to the effect that my husband would have the opportunity to find god, I should point out whilst he was in a coma he had some sort experience, which convinced him, if he needed any convincing, that god/an afterlife didn't exist.

Our friend's family were left in a very difficult position after his death as he was the breadwinner, his children, one of whom was disabled, where still quite young.

[Rhiannon]

Excellent post, torridon.   It's kind of sad to read AB's post, 'every major episode in my life ... has been met with amazing answers'.    It's like an exercise in narcissism.   Me-me-me - yet I thought Christians were supposed to think of their neighbour. 

You also get the sense that the amazing answers are infinitely elastic.   If I get cancer, pray for recovery, and it doesn't happen, well, God knew that I needed to not recover.

Doesn't it come back to this idealised parent/child relationship that Alan goes on about? If we are lucky some of us have it for real; most of us don't, not perfectly, some not at all, but for those who envisage God as Alan does they are always daddy's little soldier, little princess. With that kind of infantilised relationship of course it becomes all about me, me, me. Why worry about anyone or anything else outside of your own stuff when daddy always knows best?