Searching for GOD...

[floo]

Doesn't it come back to this idealised parent/child relationship that Alan goes on about? If we are lucky some of us have it for real; most of us don't, not perfectly, some not at all, but for those who envisage God as Alan does they are always daddy's little soldier, little princess. With that kind of infantilised relationship of course it becomes all about me, me, me. Why worry about anyone or anything else outside of your own stuff when daddy always knows best?

I think that sort relationship with any sort of parent is creepy, let alone a deity which probably doesn't exist.

[wigginhall]

Doesn't it come back to this idealised parent/child relationship that Alan goes on about? If we are lucky some of us have it for real; most of us don't, not perfectly, some not at all, but for those who envisage God as Alan does they are always daddy's little soldier, little princess. With that kind of infantilised relationship of course it becomes all about me, me, me. Why worry about anyone or anything else outside of your own stuff when daddy always knows best?

Yes, it's quite strange psychologically.   There is the narcissism, and blanking out other people's experiences and perceptions.  But I think little prince and little princess captures it.   Me, myself and I, and an idealized parent.  Once upon a time, there was a little boy/girl, who had wicked step-sisters, but hello, a great prince/princess came along, and everything was all right!

[jjohnjil]

Now come on, you lot!  Alan proved it for me, once and for all, when he told us years ago how he prayed for a parking space and, miraculously, one appeared!

And all you lot think about is cancer and millions starving!

That's unbelievers for you!!!   Typical!

[floo]

Now come on, you lot!  Alan proved it for me, once and for all, when he told us years ago how he prayed for a parking space and, miraculously, one appeared!

And all you lot think about is cancer and millions starving!

That's unbelievers for you!!!   Typical!

Fantastic of god to provide a parking space for Alan, so much more important than curing a desperately ill person!

[Alan Burns]

Fantastic of god to provide a parking space for Alan, so much more important than curing a desperately ill person!

Could it really be true?
My thoughts were turning round in my head as I looked at John with a morphine drip, oxygen mask, failing kidneys and liver, pulse growing fainter.
I had just read these words from Psalm 91 after a random opening of the Gideon bible: "Because he loves me ... I will give him a long life".
My wife and I had just arrived at her father's bedside to be told that we were just in time, because John had suffered an aortic aneurysm and was not expected to last more than another hour.  We were told he would not regain consciousness and if he did it would be a miracle.  My wife went to the toilet and prayed on her knees, then came back and asked me to read something from her bible.  I showed her the reading and we both just looked on in silence.  A few moments later John started spluttering.  Fran's sister lifted the oxygen mask and John clearly spoke the words: "Clear off!".
We fetched a nurse and soon there were medics surrounding John and we were all ushered away.

John made a miraculous recovery and lived for another four years, during which time he was able to look after his wife Peggy, who was becoming increasingly disabled with severe arthritis.  John later told us that he had asked God for another three years, and I thought back to the words of Psalm 91: “He will call on me, and I will answer him.” When he died we were faced with the dilemma of how best to look after Peggy.  We did not wish to send her to a care home, but our family doctor strongly advised us not to let her come to live with us as she was too disabled to be cared for at home.  After several prayers, we felt it was the right decision to bring Peggy to live with us.  We converted the study into a bedroom so she would not need to climb stairs.  We set about advertising for carers to help out while my wife and I were at work.  We managed to set up a successful care regime, and our family doctor admitted he had been wrong.  We felt blessed an privileged to have Peggy living with us, and our home became a wonderful focal point for my wife’s extended family.

After four years, Peggy was becoming increasingly frail and crippled with arthritis.  The local hospice offered to take her in for pain relief while we sought out a suitable place for her to be cared for.  While she was in the hospice, she suffered a severe stroke, and died in the hospice shortly after.  The priest came to her bedside just before the end and pronounced “She has her bags packed and is ready to go home now”.  Her last words were “Put that light out” and “Mother!”.  We had assumed she was just confused, but later found out that this might be consistent with the near death experience of seeing a bright light and being greeted by deceased loved ones.

Just two days after Peggy’s funeral, we had a phone call from the adoption agency about two young siblings … and so began the next chapter in our life story.

[Enki]

I think that you have told us this story before, Alan. My wife has had some experience nursing patients who have had aortic aneurysms, including one person whose aneurysm had ruptured.

Three questions at the moment:

Was this a case of an aortic aneurysm or a ruptured aortic aneurysm?(the difference is a vital one)

If it was the second, did he go to theatre in an attempt to repair the rupture?

Why was he on a morphine drip if he was unconscious?

[Alan Burns]

I think that you have told us this story before, Alan. My wife has had some experience nursing patients who have had aortic aneurysms, including one person whose aneurysm had ruptured.

Three questions at the moment:

Was this a case of an aortic aneurysm or a ruptured aortic aneurysm?(the difference is a vital one)

If it was the second, did he go to theatre in an attempt to repair the rupture?

Why was he on a morphine drip if he was unconscious?

In all honesty I don't know the answers to these questions.  I can only recall what the ward sister told us when we saw him.  He had not been to theatre.  I was under the impression that there was nothing more they could do but make him comfortable.

[Brownie]

You would have known if he'd had an operation Alan.  If the aneurysm had ruptured, he would have been rushed to theatre for an emergency op, after which it could well have been touch and go.

Anyway he did make a remarkable recovery and you were obviously very kind to him.   

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Could it really be true?
My thoughts were turning round in my head as I looked at John with a morphine drip, oxygen mask, failing kidneys and liver, pulse growing fainter.
I had just read these words from Psalm 91 after a random opening of the Gideon bible: "Because he loves me ... I will give him a long life".
My wife and I had just arrived at her father's bedside to be told that we were just in time, because John had suffered an aortic aneurysm and was not expected to last more than another hour.  We were told he would not regain consciousness and if he did it would be a miracle.  My wife went to the toilet and prayed on her knees, then came back and asked me to read something from her bible.  I showed her the reading and we both just looked on in silence.  A few moments later John started spluttering.  Fran's sister lifted the oxygen mask and John clearly spoke the words: "Clear off!".
We fetched a nurse and soon there were medics surrounding John and we were all ushered away.

Alan, do you think this would have happened anyway without the prayers?

[jeremyp]

Was this a case of an aortic aneurysm or a ruptured aortic aneurysm?(the difference is a vital one)

If it was the second, did he go to theatre in an attempt to repair the rupture?

If he didn't he would be dead now. A ruptured aortic aneurism is effectively a hole in the main artery from the heart. He would have bled out in minutes.

[Alan Burns]

Alan, do you think this would have happened anyway without the prayers?

Of course not.
John was dying.
The hospital staff were quite certain that he only had minutes left to live.

[Shaker]

Of course not.
John was dying.
The hospital staff were quite certain that he only had minutes left to live.

So their opinion is infallible, is it?

[Sebastian Toe]

Of course not.
John was dying.
The hospital staff were quite certain that he only had minutes left to live.

So if he had died (without the prayers) whose fault would that be?
The person(s) who had not prayed for him to recover?

[floo]

Of course not.
John was dying.
The hospital staff were quite certain that he only had minutes left to live.

But people make remarkable recoveries when the odds are against them doing so. My husband certainly wasn't expected to live after the aneurysm burst in his brain, but he did.

[Enki]

In all honesty I don't know the answers to these questions.  I can only recall what the ward sister told us when we saw him.  He had not been to theatre.  I was under the impression that there was nothing more they could do but make him comfortable.

Well, if it was an aortic aneuryism, depending upon its severity, people can live for years.
Indeed, I do know a person(from our dancing group) who has an aortic aneuryism.

If it was a ruptured aortic aneuryism(and assuming it was thoracic, rather than abdominal) there would be massive internal bleeding leading to death, usually within minutes. Sadly, even if repair in theatre is attempted, it usually ends in failure because of the power of the blood flow.

My wife also suggests that the words of the consultant or registrar carry much more weight than those of the ward Sister.

On the subject of the morphine drip that you mentioned, there would be no need for it because you suggested he was not conscious.

I am pleased for your sake and his that he recovered, but the vagueness of the details do not give me confidence that some sort of miracle occurred, although I quite accept that you obviously think so.

[floo]

Well, if it was an aortic aneuryism, depending upon its severity, people can live for years.
Indeed, I do know a person(from our dancing group) who has an aortic aneuryism.

If it was a ruptured aortic aneuryism(and assuming it was thoracic, rather than abdominal) there would be massive internal bleeding leading to death, usually within minutes. Sadly, even if repair in theatre is attempted, it usually ends in failure because of the power of the blood flow.

My wife also suggests that the words of the consultant or registrar carry much more weight than those of the ward Sister.

On the subject of the morphine drip that you mentioned, there would be no need for it because you suggested he was not conscious.

I am pleased for your sake and his that he recovered, but the vagueness of the details do not give me confidence that some sort of miracle occurred, although I quite accept that you obviously think so.

My cousin (45) had an aortic aneurysm repaired eight years ago, it had a minor leak. Apparently my husband's brother (82) also has one, but it is quite small and it is unlikely any surgery will be done on him as sadly he has severe dementia.

[Dicky Underpants]

I think that you have told us this story before, Alan. My wife has had some experience nursing patients who have had aortic aneurysms, including one person whose aneurysm had ruptured.

Alan has indeed told this story before. And we will all have noticed the news headlines which flashed round the world at the time: "Man recovers from a ruptured aortic aneurism without medical intervention. A true miracle!" (Irony alert, for those who suffer from Dr Sheldon Cooper's problem).

I think it is significant that, despite being asked for exact details of the case before, Alan has simply chosen to repeat the story with all its earlier ambiguities. The fact is, (as Jeremy and Enki have pointed out) people do not recover from ruptured aortic aneurisms in later life unless they receive drastic medical surgery within minutes.  We are asked to believe that massive of blood leakage into the abdominal cavity, huge blood pressure loss and brain damage (to name but a few problems) were somehow spirited away, and he just picked up his bags and walked away.....

[Dicky Underpants]

I am pleased for your sake and his that he recovered, but the vagueness of the details do not give me confidence that some sort of miracle occurred, although I quite accept that you obviously think so.

Pleased you noted that too.

[Shaker]

I think it is significant that, despite being asked for exact details of the case at the time, Alan has simply chosen to repeat the story with all its earlier ambiguities.

See also Alan's miraculous healing of dying baby story.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Of course not.
John was dying.
The hospital staff were quite certain that he only had minutes left to live.

Wow, so God stood by knowing he could save the man and waited for your wife to pray. Only then did he intervene?

You do realise that this makes your wife master of God don't you?

[Rhiannon]

Wow, so God stood by knowing he could save the man and waited for your wife to pray. Only then did he intervene?

You do realise that this makes your wife master of God don't you?

And God the kind of omnipotent deity who only helps those in its club. Or at the very least only those that stroke its ego by begging for help. Those of us that don't pray can go whistle apparently.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

And God the kind of omnipotent deity who only helps those in its club. Or at the very least only those that stroke its ego by begging for help. Those of us that don't pray can go whistle apparently.

You are right. I had excluded other options.

None of them show God in a good light though,

[Alan Burns]

And God the kind of omnipotent deity who only helps those in its club. Or at the very least only those that stroke its ego by begging for help. Those of us that don't pray can go whistle apparently.

You should know that the bible tells us that we need faith to allow God to intervene.  Jesus said that he could work no miracles in one place because the people lacked faith.  This implies that Jesus wanted to work miracles, but people's lack of faith prevented Him.

[Bubbles]

You should know that the bible tells us that we need faith to allow God to intervene.  Jesus said that he could work no miracles in one place because the people lacked faith.  This implies that Jesus wanted to work miracles, but people's lack of faith prevented Him.

 

Really?

Lack of faith is that powerful?

 

[Alan Burns]

None of them show God in a good light though,

Who are we to cast judgement on our creator?

Would you rather have had no existence?