Searching for GOD...

[Sassy]

They all believe in it but it depends on what you mean by believe in - very liberal Christians of the non-realist variety (Don Cupitt et. al.) take it symbolically and metaphorically rather than literally.

Trying to give her a get out card... NO one and I mean NO one WHO CALLS THEMSELVES A CHRISTIAN BELIEVE THE RESURRECTION TO BE SYMBOLIC OR METAPHORICAL.

You have said that with the Noah and other biblical historical stories. But nowhere have I ever found a Christian or a sect that believes what you wrote.

You knew Floo had said something NOT possible. You knew no true Christian would accept that as being true.

It has done you no credit Shaker to try and hide a massive blunder by your actions. Any decent scholar would immediately questioned not try to cover such an obvious blunder and error.

[Sassy]

Sass, believing something is the truth is just slightly different to knowing something is actually the truth, you don't seem to have grasped this rather simple fact, yet.

ippy

I guess for me, it is true. For you, how would you know if it is or isn't true for myself?
It is you who haven't grasped the fact that we can know for ourselves if it is true or not. You can know but are not willing to do what it requires to find out. This puts me in a far secure position of it being truth than you who won't even do what it takes to find out for yourself.

[ekim]

I guess for me, it is true. For you, how would you know if it is or isn't true for myself?
It is you who haven't grasped the fact that we can know for ourselves if it is true or not. You can know but are not willing to do what it requires to find out. This puts me in a far secure position of it being truth than you who won't even do what it takes to find out for yourself.

Now we are getting closer to what this topic is perhaps about.  If we take the Christian Creed as the template for what it is to be a Christian believer then you are right about belief in the resurrection as being part of the Christian faith.  Belief implies that you do not know whether it is the truth.  If a person knows the truth then they no longer need to declare themselves as a believer.  If the truth is personal to them and they wish to communicate it to others then they either need to demonstrate it or indicate a method by which others may demonstrate it to themselves, so that they can distinguish truth from delusion or conditioning.  If you claim this: "This puts me in a far secure position of it being truth than you who won't even do what it takes to find out for yourself." then you should be able to describe 'what it takes' to ippy so that if he or others are interested then they can follow the method for converting belief into truth.

[ippy]

I guess for me, it is true. For you, how would you know if it is or isn't true for myself?
It is you who haven't grasped the fact that we can know for ourselves if it is true or not. You can know but are not willing to do what it requires to find out. This puts me in a far secure position of it being truth than you who won't even do what it takes to find out for yourself.

Sass, the only trouble with your pov is that all of that stuff is so unlikely to have ever happened especially the magical, mystical and superstition based parts where it's even less likely to have ever happened than all of the rest of it and that lot's suspect enough.

It doesn't put you or me in any differing position other than you waste a lot of time dealing with some highly suspect unlikely belief, highly suspect whether it's true or not, where as I'm free to not waste my time on nonsense, other than trying to show you and others the errors of their ways, which I think is extremely altruistic of me.

ippy 

[Alan Burns]

Ok, this is a wind-up, right?

It is a famous quote from Karl Barth, described as one of the greatest Christian theologians of the 20th century.

Karl Barth was at Rockefeller Chapel on the campus of the University of Chicago during his lecture tour of the U.S. in 1962. After his lecture, during the Q & A time, a student asked Barth if he could summarize his whole life’s work in theology in a sentence. Barth said,  “Yes, I can. In the words of a song I learned at my mother’s knee: ‘Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.”

[Rhiannon]

It is a famous quote from Karl Barth, described as one of the greatest Christian theologians of the 20th century.

Karl Barth was at Rockefeller Chapel on the campus of the University of Chicago during his lecture tour of the U.S. in 1962. After his lecture, during the Q & A time, a student asked Barth if he could summarize his whole life’s work in theology in a sentence. Barth said,  “Yes, I can. In the words of a song I learned at my mother’s knee: ‘Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.”

And?

[ippy]

It is a famous quote from Karl Barth, described as one of the greatest Christian theologians of the 20th century.

Karl Barth was at Rockefeller Chapel on the campus of the University of Chicago during his lecture tour of the U.S. in 1962. After his lecture, during the Q & A time, a student asked Barth if he could summarize his whole life’s work in theology in a sentence. Barth said,  “Yes, I can. In the words of a song I learned at my mother’s knee: ‘Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.”

How much merit is there in being a fameous christian theologian? Can't say I'm all that impressed?

I suppose being a christian theologist of any kind isn't really worth much more than, say, an expert on Sherlock Holmes novels, or any other works of fiction?

ippy

[SusanDoris]

It is a famous quote from Karl Barth, described as one of the greatest Christian theologians of the 20th century.

Karl Barth was at Rockefeller Chapel on the campus of the University of Chicago during his lecture tour of the U.S. in 1962. After his lecture, during the Q & A time, a student asked Barth if he could summarize his whole life’s work in theology in a sentence. Barth said,  “Yes, I can. In the words of a song I learned at my mother’s knee: ‘Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.”

However clever any theologian thinks he or she is, not one of them knows, actually knows anything about any god.
I wonder if any of them has ever tried to produce a definition of the Christian God!!

[Rhiannon]

To be fair Barth was in many ways a good egg; he stood up against Naziism when many Christian leaders didn't.

But Alan wasn't quoting Barth; his post was two lines from a hymn sung by small children which Barth also quoted at some point.

[Alan Burns]

And?

He is emphasising the incredible value of what is in the Christian bible.
No other book provides in-depth answers to these four fundamental questions which every human being asks at some point in their lives:

Where did I come from?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
What is my destiny?

[Shaker]

He is emphasising the incredible value of what is in the Christian bible.
No other book provides in-depth answers to these four fundamental questions which every human being asks at some point in their lives:

Where did I come from?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
What is my destiny?

To claim truthfully that the Bible provides answers (I assume you mean accurate answers rather than simply any old response to a question) you would need to be able to demonstrate that the Bible provides accurate answers to these questions. And you can't.

[ippy]

He is emphasising the incredible value of what is in the Christian bible.
No other book provides in-depth answers to these four fundamental questions which every human being asks at some point in their lives:

Where did I come from?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
What is my destiny?

I have to say how sorry I feel for people like yourself Alan I can't imagine how it must feel to allow yourself to believe in so many unsupportable bronze age mythical stories, all tied up in one book, I couldn't let myself live in or by such a regressive way of thinking.

It's not like you or anyone else will ever be able to quantify these beliefs as they slowly but surly fade away to join all of the other old beliefs like Zeus, Thor Ra etc etc; why waste your time on them only there's nothing that has ever been found to date that has shown  the slightest hope of proving the case that this deity of your imagination really exists, nor is it likely to happen either, the odds are certainly not in favour of anyone finding proof, bit of a lost cause Alan.

Ippy
 

[Rhiannon]

He is emphasising the incredible value of what is in the Christian bible.
No other book provides in-depth answers to these four fundamental questions which every human being asks at some point in their lives:

Where did I come from?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
What is my destiny?

Beware of the sin of idolatry. It's just a book.

[Alan Burns]

Beware of the sin of idolatry. It's just a book.

It is God's divine message contained in these books which I idolise, not the paper they are written on.

[Alan Burns]

I have to say how sorry I feel for people like yourself Alan ....

And I feel great sadness for people who have not experienced the indescribable joy of discovering God's love.

[Shaker]

Indescribable sounds about right.

[Alan Burns]

To be fair Barth was in many ways a good egg; he stood up against Naziism when many Christian leaders didn't.

But Alan wasn't quoting Barth; his post was two lines from a hymn sung by small children which Barth also quoted at some point.

Barth was quoting what he felt was an adequate one line summary of his fourteen volume work entitled Church Dogmatics.

[Rhiannon]

Barth was quoting what he felt was an adequate one line summary of his fourteen volume work entitled Church Dogmatics.

And?

[Shaker]

Pity he didn't save a good few trees and publish the summary then.

[Rhiannon]

It is God's divine message contained in these books which I idolise, not the paper they are written on.

Still words in a book, Alan. Made by people.

[SusanDoris]

Pity he didn't save a good few trees and publish the summary then.

~Exactly! What a ghastly thought - 14 volumes of church dogmatics. What a bore he must have been!

[Nearly Sane]

~Exactly! What a ghastly thought - 14 volumes of church dogmatics. What a bore he must have been!

Yep, just like that Shakespeare really should have reduced his work as well. All those plays, and poetry too when he could just have scribbled 'I love you, you love me, other people smell of poo and wee'

[Rhiannon]

Yeah but that Barth was book after book about the science of God - theology. Which doesn't actually exist.

[torridon]

And I feel great sadness for people who have not experienced the indescribable joy of discovering God's love.

So why does that not translate into anger at God for his hiding from other people ?

[Nearly Sane]

Yeah but that Barth was book after book about the science of God - theology. Which doesn't actually exist.

As you have already pointed out, he was a good bloke though. There's a guy I meet sometimes I'm the pub who has built a scale model of the Stonehenge out of nasal hair, always stands his round though.