Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

It is a famous quote from Karl Barth, described as one of the greatest Christian theologians of the 20th century

... by Mrs Barth.

[Enki]

My anger is certainly aimed at the one who does the hiding, but it is not God.

Is this anger of yours aimed at those who hide from a God in which they actually believe, or is it directed towards those who have no belief in your God whatever? If it's the former, then compassion might be a better emotion to have. If it's the latter, then an attitude of respect and humility rather than anger might not come amiss. Either way, perhaps anger management classes might be helpful here.

[ippy]

Is this anger of yours aimed at those who hide from a God in which they actually believe, or is it directed towards those who have no belief in your God whatever? If it's the former, then compassion might be a better emotion to have. If it's the latter, then an attitude of respect and humility rather than anger might not come amiss. Either way, perhaps anger management classes might be helpful here.

Good point enki, the quakers seem to have the approach you're talking of, they always, it seems to me, do their best to be really good eggs and in the manner you describe.

ippy

[ippy]

You appear to be waiting for the second coming of Jesus in all His Glory.  But are you aware that by then it will be too late to be saved?

You really are a silly sod Alan, now go find your A board and get up to that high street again, nice sunny day,  not much wind so you can have the overhead board up today without getting blown over.

ippy

[wigginhall]

But by eliminating evil God would also take away the gift of free will, which would turn us all into puppets.  Free will gives us the ability to choose to follow God, or reject Him.  Evil is an inevitable consequence of consciously rejecting God and His love.  Many of us are victims of this evil because God's love has been hidden from us, which is why we need Jesus.

But it's the element of retaliation which I find distasteful.   Plenty of people are indifferent to God and Christianity.  OK, since God is completely good, he would love them, and want the best for them.   There is no need to punish them at all, and it's this punishment which we seem to need protection from.   We need God - to protect us from God! 

[Stranger]

But by eliminating evil God would also take away the gift of free will, which would turn us all into puppets.  Free will gives us the ability to choose to follow God, or reject Him.

As I've said before; while free will can be made to make some sense from a human point of view, it can be nothing but fiction from the point of view of an omnipotent, omniscient creator of everything. Using it as an excuse for evil is a logical absurdity.

If there is such a god - we are necessarily, from its point of view, either puppets or at the mercy of god-given randomness - in either case, for this god to blame us for our actions would be a grotesque absurdity.

[Shaker]

But it's the element of retaliation which I find distasteful.   Plenty of people are indifferent to God and Christianity.  OK, since God is completely good, he would love them, and want the best for them.   There is no need to punish them at all, and it's this punishment which we seem to need protection from.   We need God - to protect us from God!

https://goo.gl/ifySwH

[Alan Burns]

God could eliminate the Devil and his evil ways and still give humans free will.

I would suspect that this is easier said than done.

[torridon]

I would suspect that this is easier said than done.

Well if its too difficult for God to eliminate the Devil, we can't really call him omnipotent then.  Just a bit more potent than average perhaps.

[Alan Burns]

But it's the element of retaliation which I find distasteful.   Plenty of people are indifferent to God and Christianity.  OK, since God is completely good, he would love them, and want the best for them.   There is no need to punish them at all, and it's this punishment which we seem to need protection from.   We need God - to protect us from God!

No - We need God to protect us from evil.

[Shaker]

No - We need God to protect us from evil.

A question I've asked of you many times before: on the whole how do you think this is panning out?

[Alan Burns]

Is this anger of yours aimed at those who hide from a God ...

I you read my post, the anger is directed at the one who hides God from us.

[Shaker]

I would suspect that this is easier said than done.

Not to an omnipotent entity it isn't. Nothing is easier said than done in that case.

Or perhaps you don't believe in such a god.

[Shaker]

I you read my most, the anger is directed at the one who hides God from us.

... who in doing so appears to be more powerful than God.

[Rhiannon]

I would suspect that this is easier said than done.

Your god's a bit rubbish then.

[Alan Burns]

If there is such a god - we are necessarily, from its point of view, either puppets or at the mercy of god-given randomness -

You do not seem able to grasp the fact that we have the ability to freely choose God as our saviour from evil.

We have been given the capacity to love, which necessitates the ability to freely choose to give that love.

Love is not derived from puppets and it is certainly not random.

[Shaker]

You do not seem able to grasp the fact that we have the ability to freely choose God as our saviour from evil.

It isn't a fact but your assertion (again).

[Alan Burns]

It isn't a fact but your assertion (again).

Is it not a fact that I have freely chosen to accept Jesus as my saviour?

[Shaker]

Is it not a fact that I have freely chosen to accept Jesus as my saviour?

Is it? Is this demonstrable as a fact?

[Alan Burns]

Is it? Is this demonstrable as a fact?

I freely choose to rest my case 

[Shaker]

You haven't made any case to rest!

Quite.

[ippy]

Is it not a fact that I have freely chosen to accept Jesus as my saviour?

On reading posts of your Alan they make me wonder how people with beliefs like yours are still able to function and deal with all of the knowledge we're gaining every day, and still manage to hang on to these regressive ideas, like this devil idea of yours?

Don't you ever have a moment of contemplation and now and again and perhaps see a bit of light that might, if you're lucky, prompt you to go and see somebody about your line of thought, perhaps a bit of mild therapy? Only your posts aren't really making a lot of sense at the moment.

ippy

[Stranger]

If there is such a god - we are necessarily, from its point of view, either puppets or at the mercy of god-given randomness -

You do not seem able to grasp the fact that we have the ability to freely choose God as our saviour from evil.

You do not seem able to grasp that this is a logical impossibility from the point of view of a being who has had effective control over all of our nature and all of our nurture - there is nothing left to use in making a choice - except randomness.

[Shaker]

I wonder if AB is having some sort of faith crisis, and he is really trying to persuade himself rather than others of the validity of his beliefs?

Just a couple of days ago: http://goo.gl/LiSgyw

[floo]

Just a couple of days ago: http://goo.gl/LiSgyw

It won't download.