Searching for GOD...

[Bubbles]

They can't discover God's love - the greatest and most perfect love of all.

Sometimes a person cannot discover Gods love, by looking at believers.

I suspect that's why religious figures went into the desert/wilderness.

It was to escape!

 

[Alan Burns]

That's ducking the question.

The ability to love is a gift from God given freely to every human being, whether they believe in Him or not, but in recognising the source of this gift we touch on the perfection of God's love.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.…
There is no freedom to love within the mechanistic, deterministic rules of science.

[Gordon]

The ability to love is a gift from God given freely to every human being, whether they believe in Him or not, but in recognising the source of this gift we touch on the perfection of God's love.

Nothing to do with altruism being a characteristic of our species then.
 

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.…

'It is an ancient Mariner. And he stoppeth one of three' - I find quoting stuff before breakfast is always a great way to start the day!

There is no freedom to love within the mechanistic, deterministic rules of science.

So you keep saying, but the problem is that what you refer to as 'love' is just biology - which, of course, doesn't reduce its subjective value or its positive benefits: for those who do benefit that is.

[Shaker]

The ability to love is a gift from God given freely to every human being, whether they believe in Him or not ...

Except that you said that faith is the key that unlocks love, implying that those without faith can't/don't love.

Whenever caught out in the mass of inconsistencies and contradictions (never mind fallacies and assertions) that you call a faith (which is often), you really do come across as simply making it all up as you go along, Alan. Sad.

[Alan Burns]

Except that you said that faith is the key that unlocks love, implying that those without faith can't/don't love.

I was referring to God's love.
Apologies for not making this clear.

[Shaker]

I was referring to God's love.
Apologies for not making this clear.

Those without faith aren't interested. Actual things - real people, real sentient beings generally come to that - are what matter.

[Stranger]

I was referring to God's love.

What love?

If your god exists, why is it hiding behind old, self-contradictory books and people who are giving a message that is does not stand out at all from a host of other people with contradictory messages?

Looks like your god has crippling communication and self expression problems....

[Alan Burns]

'love' is just biology -

This is just an assertion with no means of proof.
The ability to love and appreciation of being loved have no biological definition.

[torridon]

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.…

That's not love, that's carefully engineered favouritism.  It's rewarding your followers, and to hell with anybody who dares question assertions. This is a very tiny idea of love. Real love would do the best by everyone.

[Alan Burns]

If your god exists, why is it hiding behind old, self-contradictory books and people who are giving a message that is does not stand out at all from a host of other people with contradictory messages?

If the Christian bible was the result of human invention it would surely contain far fewer contradictions.  The contradictions are what you would expect from the accounts of genuine witnesses and help to confirm their authenticity.

If you could only see past the relatively trivial contradictions contained in the Christian bible you would perceive an underlying message far more profound than any man made attempts to make sense of our existence.

[Gordon]

This is just an assertion with no means of proof.
The ability to love and appreciation of being loved have no biological definition.

Since 'love' is an emotion: being a personal mental process occurring within our brains seems like a workable definition. Since it is the case then, as far as is known, that emotions and mental processes are biological since they only occur in brains, so viewing 'love' as applied biology seems reasonable in the absence of viable alternatives.

 

[Stranger]

If the Christian bible was the result of human invention it would surely contain far fewer contradictions.  The contradictions are what you would expect from the accounts of genuine witnesses and help to confirm their authenticity.

If you could only see past the relatively trivial contradictions contained in the Christian bible you would perceive an underlying message far more profound than any man made attempts to make sense of our existence.

Have you actually read the bible?

I mean actually read it without filtering everything you read through what you already 'know'?

[Gordon]

If the Christian bible was the result of human invention it would surely contain far fewer contradictions.  The contradictions are what you would expect from the accounts of genuine witnesses and help to confirm their authenticity.

So that there are risks that the Bible may contain mistakes, lies and fictional embellishment helps establish its authenticity: you sure about that, Alan? I'd have though the opposite.

If you could only see past the relatively trivial contradictions contained in the Christian bible you would perceive an underlying message far more profound than any man made attempts to make sense of our existence.

You mean we should just gloss over and accept 'relatively trivial' stuff like ancient anecdotal claims of uncertain provenance of naturalism being suspended in specially selected cases?

Don't think so (unless one wishes to abandon reason and rationality)!

[floo]

I thought it was happiness:

"Happiness, happiness, the greatest gift that I possess"

Via Ken Dodd.

When our Down's Syndrome left the primary school in Cambridgeshire, he attended between the ages of 4/5, when we moved to Wales in 1990, we gave  the school a 'Happiness Cup'. This was to be presented yearly to the happiest child in the school, which until then had been our son. He wrote to Ken Dodd telling him about the cup and had a lovely letter in reply. A few years later we were invited to see Ken Dodd perform not far from where we lived. Our lad and I went back stage after the show where Ken Dodd presented him with a couple of 'ticking sticks'.

[Rhiannon]

That's not love, that's carefully engineered favouritism.  It's rewarding your followers, and to hell with anybody who dares question assertions. This is a very tiny idea of love. Real love would do the best by everyone.

I agree. It's monstrous, actually.

[torridon]

There is no freedom to love within the mechanistic, deterministic rules of science.

True; no one chooses who to fall in love with do they ?  Noone chooses what to like and what to dislike.

[Shaker]

If the Christian bible was the result of human invention it would surely contain far fewer contradictions.

You seem to know so little of human nature.

The contradictions are what you would expect from the accounts of genuine witnesses and help to confirm their authenticity.

Contradictions are what I'd expect from a gaggle of different books written at different times in different places by fallible, information-limited human beings, some of them with an agenda to advance. Sometimes even one person working alone can't get the story straight. One man wrote Only Fools and Horses, yet contradictions in the back story are absolutely rife. Exactly when was Del Boy born? It seems to have been 1948, but that would have made him far too young for the spin-off Rock and Chips. Or was it 1945? Or 1946, since he said his dad walked out on the family on Del's 16th birthday in 1965?

This short digression into my OFAH anorak-dom is by way of asking where you think the Bible stacks up next to that?

If you could only see past the relatively trivial contradictions contained in the Christian bible you would perceive an underlying message far more profound than any man made attempts to make sense of our existence.

Ah, we've reached the ne plus ultra of hand waving - "relatively trivial ..."

[Rhiannon]

If the Christian bible was the result of human invention it would surely contain far fewer contradictions.  The contradictions are what you would expect from the accounts of genuine witnesses and help to confirm their authenticity.

If you could only see past the relatively trivial contradictions contained in the Christian bible you would perceive an underlying message far more profound than any man made attempts to make sense of our existence.

They aren't 'relatively trivial' though, are they? And if this is God-breathed they shouldn't exist at all. It would make for much better evidence.

You aren't considering the whys of the contradictions here at all. Why do Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the Nativity? Why doesn't Mark mention it at all? This is theology 101 stuff, Alan. What are your answers?

[Alan Burns]

Have you actually read the bible?

Of course I have.

And every time I read it I get new insights into my Christian faith.

[Rhiannon]

Of course I have.

And every time I read it I get new insights into my Christian faith.

Like it's all made-up stuff?

(There, big clue to the Nativity question)

[Shaker]

They aren't 'relatively trivial' though, are they? And if this is God-breathed they shouldn't exist at all. It would make for much better evidence.

This is the one that Hope (for example) is notorious (amongst other things) for not touching with a bargepole: text riddled with internal contradictions that needs to be translated from one language to another and within the same language over time to keep up with the evolution of said language, allowing anybody and everybody to draw their own vastly differing mutually contradictory, inconsistent interpretations - is that the work of a traditional omni deity? Really?

[Shaker]

Of course I have.

And every time I read it I get new insights into my Christian faith.

I'd keep quiet about that if I were you, Alan.

[Leonard James]

The Buybull is composed mainly of superstitious beliefs and inventions. It is seasoned with a little good advice and a few historical facts, which are the only parts worth taking notice of.

[floo]

Of course I have.

And every time I read it I get new insights into my Christian faith.

Every time I read the Bible it confirms my scepticism.

[Shaker]

Every time I read the Bible it confirms my scepticism.

Every time I read the Holy Bible I think to myself: I don't even agree with the title.