Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

I met my wonderful wife at a church seminar entitled "Life in the Spirit", which our priest advised would change one's life - and it profoundly did!

After we were married, I discovered that she was the niece of a missionary priest who I had personally supported in the past.  I suspect that her uncle's prayers in heaven may have helped to bring us together. 

Nice that it always seems to be your own particular needs, wants, wishes and desires which are catered for, Alan.

I'm sure Becky's husband and children wish the same could be said of them.

[floo]

🌹💐🍷

There is a saying, " you can't put an old head on new shoulders."

People make their own mistakes Len, I think as you get older you get less patient with forms of self destructive behaviour.

I think you see too much faith in a religion as essentially harmful.

I'm guessing, but I think you see it as restricting someone's life.

Our Leonard is VERY, VERY, VERY OLD.

[torridon]

I know of many other Christians who perceive the same God.

 and many muslims perceive a slightly different god; then we have the hindus and the rastafarians and the Mormons and the Sikhs and the animists and the pagans not to mention a bewildering array of minor or ancient religions. I don't think you've taken that on board yet.

[Alan Burns]

and many muslims perceive a slightly different god; then we have the hindus and the rastafarians and the Mormons and the Sikhs and the animists and the pagans not to mention a bewildering array of minor or ancient religions. I don't think you've taken that on board yet.

As I said in a previous post.

There can only be one truth.

[Alan Burns]

Nice that it always seems to be your own particular needs, wants, wishes and desires which are catered for, Alan.

I'm sure Becky's husband and children wish the same could be said of them.

Andrew has his own witness stories which profoundly confirm his Christian faith.

[Leonard James]

I met my wonderful wife at a church seminar entitled "Life in the Spirit", which our priest advised would change one's life - and it profoundly did!

After we were married, I discovered that she was the niece of a missionary priest who I had personally supported in the past.  I suspect that her uncle's prayers in heaven may have helped to bring us together. 

You seem ideally suited. Congratulations!

[Shaker]

Andrew has his own witness stories which profoundly confirm his Christian faith.

Then his reasoning abilities sound about the same as yours, i.e. nonexistent.

Something I had already confirmed for myself via the e-mails of his which you post intermittently on the prayer thread, to be fair.

[Alan Burns]

Then his reasoning abilities sound about the same as yours, i.e. nonexistent.

I can guarantee you would not say that if you met him.

[Shaker]

I can guarantee you would not say that if you met him.

No you cannot.

[Leonard James]

🌹💐🍷

There is a saying, " you can't put an old head on young shoulders."

People make their own mistakes Len, I think as you get older you get less patient with forms of perceived  self destructive behaviour.

I think you see too much faith in a religion as essentially harmful.

As it often proves to be.

I'm guessing, but I think you see it as restricting someone's life.

Yes, in the sense that it takes up brain space which could be more usefully employed.

[Sebastian Toe]

Yes, many people seek the truth, and many claim to have found it.

But there can only be one truth.

I have deduced what I profoundly believe to be the truth, and nothing I have come across in my lifetime, (including the posts on this forum), has come close to changing this belief.

Muslim -
Many people seek the truth, and many claim to have found it.
But there can only be one truth.
I have deduced what I profoundly believe to be the truth, and nothing I have come across in my lifetime, has come close to changing this belief.

Jew
Many people seek the truth, and many claim to have found it.
But there can only be one truth.
I have deduced what I profoundly believe to be the truth, and nothing I have come across in my lifetime, has come close to changing this belief.

Sikh
Many people seek the truth, and many claim to have found it.
But there can only be one truth.
I have deduced what I profoundly believe to be the truth, and nothing I have come across in my lifetime, has come close to changing this belief.

 

[Leonard James]

Our Leonard is VERY, VERY, VERY OLD.

Oy, you pack it in! I can give you a run for your money! 

Except in bed, of course! 

[torridon]

and many muslims perceive a slightly different god; then we have the hindus and the rastafarians and the Mormons and the Sikhs and the animists and the pagans not to mention a bewildering array of minor or ancient religions. I don't think you've taken that on board yet.

As I said in a previous post.

There can only be one truth.

And no doubt you think it's yours 

Your god who claims to be good, but quietly creates evil in the form of the devil to mess things up; your god who claims to be all-loving but in reality only rewards his acolytes;  your god who claims to be available to everybody but in reality hides so that no objective trace of him can be found; your god who claims to be all-powerful, but in reality seems to be feeble compared to the devil;

If your god is The One Truth then I'm a pink flamingo

[Bubbles]

As I said in a previous post.

There can only be one truth.


And no doubt you think it's yours 

Your god who claims to be good, but quietly creates evil in the form of the devil to mess things up; your god who claims to be all-loving but in reality only rewards his acolytes;  your god who claims to be available to everybody but in reality hides so that no objective trace of him can be found; your god who claims to be all-powerful, but in reality seems to be feeble compared to the devil;

If your god is The One Truth then I'm a pink flamingo

Ahhhh! I wondered why you were standing on one leg 

[wigginhall]

That's not love, that's carefully engineered favouritism.  It's rewarding your followers, and to hell with anybody who dares question assertions. This is a very tiny idea of love. Real love would do the best by everyone.

This is a fundamental problem in this kind of Christianity, and I don't think Alan dare grapple with it.   You are OK if you are saved, but what about all the others?   God loves everyone, yet some go to hell?  Of course, there is the usual finagling with 'you chose to reject God' and so on, but then why does God retaliate?

[Stranger]

I have deduced what I profoundly believe to be the truth, and nothing I have come across in my lifetime, (including the posts on this forum), has come close to changing this belief.

Deduced? Please do share your reasoning....

[ippy]

I met my wonderful wife at a church seminar entitled "Life in the Spirit", which our priest advised would change one's life - and it profoundly did!

After we were married, I discovered that she was the niece of a missionary priest who I had personally supported in the past.  I suspect that her uncle's prayers in heaven may have helped to bring us together. 

What a load of drivel, yuk.

ippy

[Leonard James]

Ahhhh! I wondered why you were standing on one leg 

 

But what a beautiful leg! I don't think I could stand the strain of seeing both of them. 

[torridon]

Calm down Len

[Alan Burns]

Deduced? Please do share your reasoning....

I began to share my reasoning on this forum by showing that the human attributes of conscious self awareness and free will are evidence of the human soul and will never be fully defined by molecular activity in the brain.  We may well be able to create robots which can simulate human behaviour, but they will just be machines driven by scientifically determined events with no internal awareness or capacity for free will decisions.  Conscious awareness and free will choices can be correlated to brain activity, but correlation does not imply causation.  This universe began with a big explosion and will end with a gradual burning out of all energy, just like a big firework.  There were no entities of conscious awareness at the beginning, and there will be none at the end.  Evolution theory does not explain conscious awareness or free will capability because these attributes are not definable as material entities.

The religious concept of a non material soul, not of this universe, which will survive the death of our physical bodies fits in well with the above scenario.

You will find more detail in my previous posts which can be listed from my profile.

[Alan Burns]

This is a fundamental problem in this kind of Christianity, and I don't think Alan dare grapple with it.   You are OK if you are saved, but what about all the others?   God loves everyone, yet some go to hell?  Of course, there is the usual finagling with 'you chose to reject God' and so on, but then why does God retaliate?

I would totally agree with your reasoning - if Satan did not exist.

[wigginhall]

I would totally agree with your reasoning - if Satan did not exist.

Well, all my family were indifferent to religion, and had pretty decent lives.  But you would say that Satan had lured them away?  It sounds bonkers to me.

[Stranger]

I began to share my reasoning on this forum by showing that the human attributes of conscious self awareness and free will are evidence of the human soul and will never be fully defined by molecular activity in the brain.  We may well be able to create robots which can simulate human behaviour, but they will just be machines driven by scientifically determined events with no internal awareness or capacity for free will decisions.  Conscious awareness and free will choices can be correlated to brain activity, but correlation does not imply causation.  This universe began with a big explosion and will end with a gradual burning out of all energy, just like a big firework.  There were no entities of conscious awareness at the beginning, and there will be none at the end.  Evolution theory does not explain conscious awareness or free will capability because these attributes are not definable as material entities.

The religious concept of a non material soul, not of this universe, which will survive the death of our physical bodies fits in well with the above scenario.

You will find more detail in my previous posts which can be listed from my profile.

This is basically an argument from personal incredulity that conscious humans with free will (that, as I keep saying, makes no sense to an omnipotent, omniscient creator, anyway) could have arisen by any 'natural' processes; essentially the claim "wow, us humans are amazing, it must be magic".

You also need to consider that just adding the "religious concept of a non material soul" to humans doesn't explain anything at all. Do you know how souls work? How they make us aware and give us this self-contradictory version of 'free will' you keep talking about? If not, you might as well just say we are magic.

Apart from argument from incredulity being a fallacy - how did you decide what sort of magic religion to believe in?

[wigginhall]

As Some Kind of Stranger said, but the phrase, 'the human attributes of conscious self-awareness and free will are evidence of the human soul and will never be fully defined by molecular activity in the brain', stands out.

How on earth do you know that?  For one thing, it's clear that the brain operates in terms of modules or specializations, so for example, some kinds of brain damage produce loss of speech (aphasia).  There is also a kind of holistic operation as well, where different modules interact.

I would think that there is optimism among neurologists and psychologists that the link between brain and consciousness will one day be understood.

 

[torridon]

I began to share my reasoning on this forum by showing that the human attributes of conscious self awareness and free will are evidence of the human soul and will never be fully defined by molecular activity in the brain.  We may well be able to create robots which can simulate human behaviour, but they will just be machines driven by scientifically determined events with no internal awareness or capacity for free will decisions.  Conscious awareness and free will choices can be correlated to brain activity, but correlation does not imply causation.  This universe began with a big explosion and will end with a gradual burning out of all energy, just like a big firework.  There were no entities of conscious awareness at the beginning, and there will be none at the end.  Evolution theory does not explain conscious awareness or free will capability because these attributes are not definable as material entities.

And many of us have taken time out to explain why this is wrong, on multiple levels, refering to actual science, actual logic and actual evidence. You come across as so fixated on your own rightness that you are incapable of new learning.