Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

I've found that it's better to love real people, Alan.

And what is at the heart of a real person?
Just a blob of reconstituted star debris?
Or a living, perceiving soul of God's creation?

[Stranger]

And what is at the heart of a real person?
Just a blob of reconstituted star debris?
Or a living, perceiving soul of God's creation?

An argument from incredulity fallacy combined with your own favourite form of magic.

[Rhiannon]

And what is at the heart of a real person?
Just a blob of reconstituted star debris?
Or a living, perceiving soul of God's creation?

Why do you need to make stuff up about how wonderful it is that we live and feel? Why isn't that enough for you?

You make it all so small with your stories. Why cover a diamond in horse shit?

[SusanDoris]

Alan Burns
 What is this 'ultimate purpose' then?

[SusanDoris]

By jingo I think she's got it

She certainly has!! 

[torridon]

The fact that we can perceive meaning is the key to unlock the ultimate meaning.

Atoms and molecules react - they do not perceive.  The atoms and molecules in our brains and sensory organs do a wonderful job in processing information, but processing does not constitute perception.  Where lies the entity which perceives and attaches meaning to all this data held in our brains?  Can atomic particles perceive themselves?  The answer of course lies in the human soul.

and as we have pointed out innumerable times already, perception and cognition occurs in all animals, not just humans.  If I am out walking with my pet antelope on the Kenyan savannah and we both see a lion creeping up on us, the information processing from raw optical data into something meaningful - the emotion of fear, triggering a motor response - is going to be pretty much identical.  Humans inherited a mammalian brain, by virtue of, eerm, being mammals and these fundamental processes of perception and cognition work the same in both of us. So if you insist that it is the human soul that perceives in humans, then it must be the antelope soul that perceives in antelopes.  Try and get your head round this.

[Stranger]

Alan Burns
 What is this 'ultimate purpose' then?

Massaging his god's fragile ego, I think...

[Rhiannon]

Massaging his god's fragile ego, I think...

No, it's massaging his own ego while pretending to be humble about it.

[Shaker]

And what is at the heart of a real person?
Just a blob of reconstituted star debris?
Or a living, perceiving soul of God's creation?

I find the former breath-takingly amazing, awe-inspiring and in fact noble (as Lawrence Krauss put it, forget Jesus - the stars died so that you could live. This is the literal truth); the latter strikes me as a rather silly fairy tale for the ignorant, the fearful and invincibly credulous with self-esteem issues - serious issues, in that it contrives somehow to yoke the maximum of self-abasement and self-abnegation to the maximum of oily narcissism.

[savillerow]

Msg 12543 Shaker. I like the way that you put it. It's a strange double sided coin for people of faith. All subservient, humble, thankful and not knowing on one side. Then all knowing, arrogant, naive, ignorant and able to judge people on the other.

[Bubbles]

Alan Burns
 What is this 'ultimate purpose' then?

To reach your full potential 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Floo,

If god created us then our purpose is to worship it to keep it on a HUGE ego trip.

Sky Fairies are like that.

Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Msg 12543 Shaker. I like the way that you put it. It's a strange double sided coin for people of faith. All subservient, humble, thankful and not knowing on one side. Then all knowing, arrogant, naive, ignorant and able to judge people on the other.

Cognitive dissonance: Demonstrated by people that smoke cigarettes, they know that there is no good valid reason, to smoke them and in spite of this knowledge they still make convoluted non-excuses to themselves to allow themselves to continue with the addiction.

Ditto Alan with his delusion.

ippy

[ekim]

Dear Floo,

Sky Fairies are like that.

Gonnagle.

Dinkan isn't ........   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36001999

[Alan Burns]

I find the former breath-takingly amazing, awe-inspiring and in fact noble (as Lawrence Krauss put it, forget Jesus - the stars died so that you could live. This is the literal truth); the latter strikes me as a rather silly fairy tale for the ignorant, the fearful and invincibly credulous with self-esteem issues - serious issues, in that it contrives somehow to yoke the maximum of self-abasement and self-abnegation to the maximum of oily narcissism.

All this from uncontrollable chemical activity. 

And yes, you can correctly label this as personal incredulity.   

[ippy]

Dear Floo,

Sky Fairies are like that.

Gonnagle.

You mean Sky Fairies that like to think of themselves as god, I assume?

ippy

[Stranger]

All this from uncontrollable chemical activity. 

And yes, you can correctly label this as personal incredulity.   

Personal incredulity hasn't got a good track record. Good luck with your god of the gaps - much smaller than it was and still shrinking....

[BeRational]

All this from uncontrollable chemical activity. 

And yes, you can correctly label this as personal incredulity.   

At least you are beginning to learn some logic.

Progress of sorts.

[Alan Burns]

Personal incredulity hasn't got a good track record. Good luck with your god of the gaps - much smaller than it was and still shrinking....

On the contrary, the attributes of conscious perception and free thought constitute a huge unbreachable abyss with no possible material explanation.  And you will find that God is also the explanation behind the existence of material beyond the gaps. 

[torridon]

I find the former breath-takingly amazing, awe-inspiring and in fact noble (as Lawrence Krauss put it, forget Jesus - the stars died so that you could live. This is the literal truth); the latter strikes me as a rather silly fairy tale for the ignorant, the fearful and invincibly credulous with self-esteem issues - serious issues, in that it contrives somehow to yoke the maximum of self-abasement and self-abnegation to the maximum of oily narcissism.

All this from uncontrollable chemical activity. 

And yes, you can correctly label this as personal incredulity.   

As a proposition, the claim that all things we see around us are the products of matter and energy combined in complex ways according to simple underlying laws - this claim is quite modest compared to your position - that all these things are the willfull creation of some super-being with awesome powers that just exists out of nowhere with no explanation.  I think you need to get your incredulities sorted out.

[torridon]

On the contrary, the attributes of conscious perception and free thought constitute a huge unbreachable abyss with no possible material explanation.  And you will find that God is also the explanation behind the existence of material beyond the gaps. 

Noone else sees an 'unbreachable abyss' apart from you Alan.  Just another of your penny-mantras wheeled out to avoid trying to understand things.

[Shaker]

On the contrary, the attributes of conscious perception and free thought constitute a huge unbreachable abyss with no possible material explanation.  And you will find that God is also the explanation behind the existence of material beyond the gaps. 

You will find that a little invisible man with a switch who lives in my fridge is the explanation for the light coming on when I open the door and going off when I close it.

[Alan Burns]

As a proposition, the claim that all things we see around us are the products of matter and energy combined in complex ways according to simple underlying laws - this claim is quite modest compared to your position - that all these things are the willfull creation of some super-being with awesome powers that just exists out of nowhere with no explanation.

And what alternative explanation do we have for anything coming into existence?

[Alan Burns]

You will find that a little invisible man with a switch who lives in my fridge is the explanation for the light coming on when I open the door and going off when I close it.

Why yes, I recall Tommy Steele sang a song about him.   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dSupxO3OPY

[Stranger]

On the contrary, the attributes of conscious perception and free thought constitute a huge unbreachable abyss with no possible material explanation.  And you will find that God is also the explanation behind the existence of material beyond the gaps. 

He asserted, without a hint of reasoning or evidence...