Searching for GOD...

[ippy]

We all need saving but Christians are smart enough to realise it.

A bit like when a shop assistant asks, "do you need help", it make me wonder how they knew, who told them?

ippy 

[jeremyp]

12488 is classic naturalism whether you like it or not.

It's certainly not Dawkins line where an immediate conclusion to the question....''what's it all about'' is it was designed.

Now Dawkins would go on to say that that might be good enough for the simple but the sophisticated and trained must settle for the Blind watchmaker.

I would move that the sophisticated question the assumptions of materialism. Not much evidence of that though.

Nature and methodological naturalism are not ontological naturalism I'm afraid.

Your arguments are sophist, not sophisticated and I mean that in the ordinary sense, not the technical sense.

This whole argument can be summed up this:

Theist (Christian in this case): The Universe was created by God and he came down from heaven as a human.

Us: OK, not convinced. What evidence do you have?

Theist: ....
Forget about your ontological turd polishing mumbo jumbo and try to think about how you would fill in the dotted part so we would be convinced.

[Alan Burns]

Shall I name those posters here that you view as incomplete human beings? Would you think about who that includes? Perhaps then you might just become aware enough to see what an utterly contemptible viewpoint that is.

I do believe we are incomplete without knowing God's love.

Is it utterly contemptible to wish others could discover the joy of knowing God's love in their lives?

It is part of God's calling to share the Good News.  How else could the Christian faith have grown from the few disillusioned disciples left after Jesus was crucified in a remote corner of the Roman Empire?

[Stranger]

How else could the Christian faith have grown from the few disillusioned disciples left after Jesus was crucified in a remote corner of the Roman Empire?

Err... hang on, let me think.... oh yes! Your god is supposed to be omnipotent, right? So it could easily have communicated with the entire world, unambiguously and without any doubt or confusion and done so to every generation...

Easy, no?

[Shaker]

I do believe we are incomplete without knowing God's love.

Don't include me as part of your 'we.' I'm not.

Is it utterly contemptible to wish others could discover the joy of knowing God's love in their lives?

Yes.

It is part of God's calling to share the Good News.  How else could the Christian faith have grown from the few disillusioned disciples left after Jesus was crucified in a remote corner of the Roman Empire?

Ineradicable human gullibiity and the preference for believing what is desired to be true.

[Alan Burns]

Err... hang on, let me think.... oh yes! Your god is supposed to be omnipotent, right? So it could easily have communicated with the entire world, unambiguously and without any doubt or confusion and done so to every generation...

Easy, no?

We are not in a position to dictate to God how He should do things. 

[Shaker]

We are not in a position to dictate to God how He should do things.

We are in a position to question the assertions and pseudo-arguments of those who claim belief in such a thing and why they all fail miserably, however.

[Stranger]

We are not in a position to dictate to God how He should do things.

Perhaps not, but if god is hiding (as it is, if it exists) and there are serious consequences for us if we don't respond to it's hidden message, then god is clearly not good or just.

[Alan Burns]

Is it utterly contemptible to wish others could discover the joy of knowing God's love in their lives?

Yes.

So why are you posting on a Christian thread entitled "Searching for God"?

[torridon]

We are not in a position to dictate to God how He should do things.

Maybe not, but we are in a position to call you out on your muddled thinking.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

We are not in a position to dictate to God how He should do things.

Doesn't it give you pause for thought though?

I mean doesn't it seems strange that he could communicate directly to us now is a clear and unambiguous way but doesn't.

[Shaker]

So why are you posting on a Christian thread entitled "Searching for God"?

I enjoy discussing religion. I dislike deeply and intensely the bare assertions and panoply of fallacies that it inevitably gives rise to that its acolytes depend upon, not to mention the ugly, illiberal, anti-human, divisive attitudes that accrue to it, but I enjoy the discussion.

[floo]

Doesn't it give you pause for thought though?

I mean doesn't it seems strange that he could communicate directly to us now is a clear and unambiguous way but doesn't.

Alan seems to avoid questions like that.

[Alan Burns]

Doesn't it give you pause for thought though?

I mean doesn't it seems strange that he could communicate directly to us now is a clear and unambiguous way but doesn't.

None of us know full reality.

There are many things which remain a mystery to me, but none of them can take me away from God's love.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

None of us know full reality.

There are many things which remain a mystery to me, but none of them can take me away from God's love.

Yes, but why would God hide, why not just communicate clearly to us?

[Stranger]

Yes, but why would God hide, why not just communicate clearly to us?

The pernicious meme that has infected his mind doesn't allow him to ask questions like that. His god exists and is good; any inconvenient facts that indicate otherwise simply must have an explanation, even if he doesn't know what it is...

It's very, very sad.

[Rhiannon]

I don't know if it's sad exactly - he seems quite happy with it.

[Shaker]

I wonder.

If the happiness is genuine it can only be the bliss of ignorance that comes from quelling all those difficult boat-rocking questions and refusing to deal with the utterly fallacious non-arguments he keeps throwing up.

In which, let's face it, he's very far from alone on this forum.

[Rhiannon]

I have no idea. But I am not going to start telling him how much happier he'd be as an unbeliever. I'm sick to death of him telling me how to be a sunbeam but I think I have enough manners to refrain from telling him that he's incomplete as a human being in order to browbeat him into dropping his faith.

[Bubbles]

Yes, but why would God hide, why not just communicate clearly to us?

Perhaps if she spoke to you, your head would explode.......

Oops!  . Thinking of the film Dogma ........ 

[Alan Burns]

Yes, but why would God hide, why not just communicate clearly to us?

God made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and communicates His message through the Gospels.

I know it is not the way we would expect God to communicate to us, and the Jews certainly did not envisage the coming of their Saviour in this way.  But it has worked for many millions of Christians throughout the world, despite being the target of persecution.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

God made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and communicates His message through the Gospels.

The first part is assertion. As to communication, he does that very badly. Most the people who have ever lived since the time of Jesus have not accepted the message. Even amongst Christians they can't agree on what the meaning is hence the endless schisms.

But it has worked for many millions of Christians throughout the world, despite being the target of persecution.

I agree that there is persecution of Christians happening in the world today, and I condemn that.

Christians have, and still do persecute other people because of the message. Do you think the spread of the message and Christianity has been helped at all by being adopted by the Romans and also the conquest of South America? To name but two.

[Stranger]

God made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and communicates His message through the Gospels.

Except it didn't and doesn't.

This is not communication, at least not in the least bit competent communication. It's an old story, with no evidence at all that it was a message from any god and endless disagreement amongst those who think it was.

[horsethorn]

God made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and communicates His message through the Gospels.

Just like every other god does through their holy books...

I know it is not the way we would expect God to communicate to us, and the Jews certainly did not envisage the coming of their Saviour in this way.  But it has worked for many millions of Christians throughout the world, despite being the target of persecution.

Yes - and it has worked for other gods and their holy books, and for many millions of their followers throughout the world, despite being the target of persecution by christians.

ht

[ippy]

I do believe we are incomplete without knowing God's love.

Is it utterly contemptible to wish others could discover the joy of knowing God's love in their lives?

It is part of God's calling to share the Good News.  How else could the Christian faith have grown from the few disillusioned disciples left after Jesus was crucified in a remote corner of the Roman Empire?

When you address this stuff to adults well that's fine , it's just another bunch of religious nutters, most people just ignore them.

I absolutely detest the way you religious people all have this need to pollute the minds of very young and vulnerable children with your rubbish before they even have the chance to reach an age where they have acquired the ability to reason for themselves, incidentally I'm sure this is what must have happened in your case.

The usual stuff with most religions, Indoctrinate this generation to indoctrinate the next generation, and on and on, it obviously has a success rate, have a look in the mirror Alan.   

ippy