Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

When you address this stuff to adults well that's fine , it's just another bunch of religious nutters, most people just ignore them.

I absolutely detest the way you religious people all have this need to pollute the minds of very young and vulnerable children with your rubbish before they even have the chance to reach an age where they have acquired the ability to reason for themselves, incidentally I'm sure this is what must have happened in your case.

The usual stuff with most religions, Indoctrinate this generation to indoctrinate the next generation, and on and on, it obviously has a success rate, have a look in the mirror Alan.   

ippy

Christianity did not spread by indoctrinating Children.
It is adults who initially receive and accept the message.

[ippy]

Christianity did not spread by indoctrinating Children.
It is adults who initially receive and accept the message.

So you don't take your children to church you don't let them do a nativity play and say to yourselves and others oh its only a bit of fun for the youngsters suitable for their age, meet the vicar he's a very nice man look how ordinary he is, ( mind you a catholic priest?), oh that big cross on the side of the building you don't try to explain it?

Now I did my best to indoctrinate my children, to think for themselves first and the very slightest mention of anything superstitious before their ability to challenge had set in and after that I would have hoped I had two very inquisitive young boys, past believing in magic men and superstitious miraicles, if I was lucky.

We have our local bunch of religious nutters that are alway going around our town dragging their poor little kiddies along with them I just hope they get so bored with it they dump the lot of it as soon as they're old enough to get away, I really feel so sorry for the young children. This group then go and  set up mikes and speakers and a bit of a band every now and again, in one or the other of our shopping arcades they are always in the way on these occasions, nobody stops and listens and again dragging on and on with quite a number of of youngsters bored out of their sculls having to hang on.

Christian rock bands yuck, I don't know why they are all so bloody awful, perhaps there's something in that saying that the devil has the best tunes, I'll give you that Alan

I wouldn't have said it is adults who initally receive and accept the message, more to the point it is gullable adults who initally receive and accept the message.

There is no logical or rational reason to accept your so called message.

ippy

[Rhiannon]

God made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and communicates His message through the Gospels.

I know it is not the way we would expect God to communicate to us, and the Jews certainly did not envisage the coming of their Saviour in this way.  But it has worked for many millions of Christians throughout the world, despite being the target of persecution.

Even very devout Christians are happy to acknowledge that parts of the Gospels are made up. The most notable are the Nativity narratives; these days any decent theological college teaches these as literary devices employed to make the various points required by Matthew and Luke. In fact my former pp didn't think they should be in the Bible at all, they are so obviously fictitious.

So why not most of it? Or all of it?

[Alan Burns]

There is no logical or rational reason to accept your so called message.

ippy

It is simple logic:
Parents need to have faith before they can teach their children.
You cannot spread faith through children.

[SusanDoris]

It is simple logic:
Parents need to have faith before they can teach their children.
You cannot spread faith through children.

Adults who indoctrinate their children, who persuade and convince themthat there is a God, in spite of the fact that the child cannot use any of its senses to perceive this god, are perpetuating the myth, turning another generation of children into credulous, gullible adults, instead of teaching them proper critical thinking, teaching them to question, look for evidence, which, if not found, becomes a don't know, teaching them to be confident of saying, 'I don't know'..

And that's all wasted on you, isn't it? It is, as others have said, really sad.

[Alan Burns]

Even very devout Christians are happy to acknowledge that parts of the Gospels are made up. The most notable are the Nativity narratives; these days any decent theological college teaches these as literary devices employed to make the various points required by Matthew and Luke. In fact my former pp didn't think they should be in the Bible at all, they are so obviously fictitious.

So why not most of it? Or all of it?

I have little faith in the so called literary experts who think they can interpret true meanings two thousand years after they were written.  In his essay "fern seed and elephants", CS Lewis illustrates how his own writings and those of his colleagues get misinterpreted by experts who think they know the true motives of the authors.  If these experts can fail so well on modern writings, there is little hope that their interpretations are accurate for writings from two thousand years ago.

And yes, I do believe in the virgin birth.

[Stranger]

I have little faith in the so called literary experts who think they can interpret true meanings two thousand years after they were written.  In his essay "fern seed and elephants", CS Lewis illustrates how his own writings and those of his colleagues get misinterpreted by experts who think they know the true motives of the authors.  If these experts can fail so well on modern writings, there is little hope that their interpretations are accurate for writings from two thousand years ago.

So, you have to rely on your god to tell you the correct interpretation? Why does it tell different people so many different things?

[Rhiannon]

I have little faith in the so called literary experts who think they can interpret true meanings two thousand years after they were written.  In his essay "fern seed and elephants", CS Lewis illustrates how his own writings and those of his colleagues get misinterpreted by experts who think they know the true motives of the authors.  If these experts can fail so well on modern writings, there is little hope that their interpretations are accurate for writings from two thousand years ago.

And yes, I do believe in the virgin birth.

Why does none of this surprise me?

Theologians aren't just literary experts. But actually you don't need to be an expert in anything to see the bloody obvious.

[savillerow]

AB "and yes i do believe in the virgin birth" Why? Its daft.

[torridon]

And yes, I do believe in the virgin birth.

in which case Jesus would have had no Y chromosomes. Hard to see how anyone with such a severe chromosomal abnormality would survive to full term.

Don't tell us, it was magic again I suppose 

[Alan Burns]

AB "and yes i do believe in the virgin birth" Why? Its daft.

The virgin birth of Jesus Christ was documented by Luke, a physician and world-class historian who interviewed eyewitnesses, probably including Mary herself, for his detailed account of this world-changing event. In addition to the birth of Christ, he also gives special attention to the birth of John the Baptist and many see his gynecological interests to be a result of his training as a physician.

[BeRational]

The virgin birth of Jesus Christ was documented by Luke, a physician and world-class historian who interviewed eyewitnesses, probably including Mary herself, for his detailed account of this world-changing event. In addition to the birth of Christ, he also gives special attention to the birth of John the Baptist and many see his gynecological interests to be a result of his training as a physician.

It is not known who wrote the gospels or if indeed they are true.

For you to believe them, you have to be gullible and not someone that uses reason and logic.

But, you have shown that over and over again.

You are not a reasoned thinking person.

[floo]

The virgin birth of Jesus Christ was documented by Luke, a physician and world-class historian who interviewed eyewitnesses, probably including Mary herself, for his detailed account of this world-changing event. In addition to the birth of Christ, he also gives special attention to the birth of John the Baptist and many see his gynecological interests to be a result of his training as a physician.

As the virgin birth isn't credible it is highly unlikely to be true.

[Alan Burns]

It is not known who wrote the gospels or if indeed they are true.

For you to believe them, you have to be gullible and not someone that uses reason and logic.

But, you have shown that over and over again.

You are not a reasoned thinking person.

But human thinking has proved to be far less reliable than the divine revelations of the Christian Gospels.  Had the Gospels been based on myth they would have been discredited long ago, but many intelligent critics have recognised the historical truth which the Gospel writers portray.

[Shaker]

But human thinking has proved to be far less reliable than the divine revelations of the Christian Gospels.

Until and unless you can demonstrate that there's such a thing as divine revelation - i.e. that there's anything other than human thinking taking place in humans in the world about things of this world - then sheer nonsense would be the very mildest term for this.

[horsethorn]

But human thinking has proved to be far less reliable than the divine revelations of the Christian Gospels.

Really? You must have been completely out of touch with modern society and its discoveries for quite some substantial time if you think that.

Had the Gospels been based on myth they would have been discredited long ago,

They were.

but many intelligent critics have recognised the historical truth which the Gospel writers portray.

About as much as Aesop's Fables.

ht

[floo]

Unless evidence can be found to prove the fantastical scenarios in the Bible are factual, the default position must be that they aren't.

[Shaker]

Unless evidence can be found to prove the fantastical scenarios in the Bible are factual, the default position must be that they aren't.

N.B. Unless you're Hope

[floo]

N.B. Unless you're Hope

Yep.

[Stranger]

...

You are not a reasoned thinking person.

But human thinking has proved to be far less reliable than the divine revelations of the Christian Gospels.

I think you just made BR's point.

Had the Gospels been based on myth they would have been discredited long ago...

They have been.

...but many intelligent critics have recognised the historical truth which the Gospel writers portray.

You recently dismissed most scholarship on the subject (#12623).

[Sassy]

Msg 12477 Sassy "You have no point of faith" No i do not, i have none, zippo, bereft, lacking, vacant, empty, devoid of the bloody thing. Your "faith" answers nothing. Its the curse of the planet. It really is.

Boo hoo hoo get a load of you. If you are unhappy with your life Savillerow whose fault is that?
Where zippo, bereft etc etc etc comes in I see not, but it is really not applicable to beliefs of another individual such as myself.
Curse of the planet? The planet isn't affected by my beliefs a little OTT on your part. As for anything else... either make some useful point or keep otherwise dead opinions to yourself.

[floo]

Boo hoo hoo get a load of you. If you are unhappy with your life Savillerow whose fault is that?
Where zippo, bereft etc etc etc comes in I see not, but it is really not applicable to beliefs of another individual such as myself.
Curse of the planet? The planet isn't affect my beliefs a little OTT on your part. As for anything else... either make some useful point or keep otherwise dead opinions to yourself.

Take you own advice dear.

[Brownie]

Alan, it is believed the Gospel of Luke was written around 70 AD so it is unlikely there were any eyewitnesses around, particularly not the Virgin Mary.

[Sassy]

I have no faith(such an annoying word) but I tell people  i have a shed load of hope. I do hope for so many things for this planet and the population. Why wouldnt I. But "coming together" for all of us must be a much more shared view of all the things that have been mentioned in the past IE(in no particular order) logic, science, common sense, evidence, rationality etc. . . . .glass of wine. Its not a bad wish is it?

Hope...Why what can you do for this planet and it'e people besides find fault with others who believe differently from yourself .
Truth is you and anything you say or do will never add anything to the good of the people on this planet or make any radical difference to the planet itself.

Faith gives hope and projects good things for others. In your case the hapless can hardly help the hopeless. Everything you speak about lately has had a ring tone of everything being wrong for the world that does not fall in line with your own beliefs.

Bring back the original Savillerow and one who is not feeling sorry for himself but no one else.

Cheer up me old mucca...

[floo]

Alan, it is believed the Gospel of Luke was written around 70 AD so it is unlikely there were any eyewitnesses around, particularly not the Virgin Mary.

Mary is likely to have kicked the bucket well before then.