Searching for GOD...

[wigginhall]

Of course I appreciate life and all its wonderful experiences.  It is what we were made for, as God intended.  But these are just tiny glimpses of the wonderful gifts in store for us if we accept Jesus as our Saviour.

I find this very odd.   Yes, this is a nice sunset, but it'll be even better when you die.   What a weird way to live.   Life is here and now.

[torridon]

I guess some people extrapolate moments of glimpsed bliss into an eternity of unending bliss; that always just seems naivety on an epic scale to me; better to cultivate a realistic appreciation of what we really do have and what we really are, ditch all that clumsy baggage requiring one to become a lifelong science denier not to mention an enemy to evidence and a stranger to reason. What we do have here and now is a thing of wonder in itself all the richer for some little understanding of our provenance.

[wigginhall]

I guess some people extrapolate moments of glimpsed bliss into an eternity of unending bliss; that always just seems naivety on an epic scale to me; better to cultivate a realistic appreciation of what we really do have and what we really are, ditch all that clumsy baggage requiring one to become a lifelong science denier not to mention an enemy to evidence and a stranger to reason. What we do have here and now is a thing of wonder in itself all the richer for some little understanding of our provenance.

Well, yes, it also strikes me as a denial of life and an obsession with death.   I can understand people saying, life is shit, but just wait for heaven, but here we have someone saying, life is beautiful, but ...   Well, the buts vary, since it's guesswork.

[Alan Burns]

I'm not sure 'stubbornness' is quite the word for it.

I can understand it when people say 'this is what I believe and I know it doesn't make sense but it's how I experience things.' But the contortions and contradictions that you go through in order to shore up your beliefs don't make sense to me. At some point they must feel dishonest to you, surely?

They make perfect sense to me, which is why I share them.

[Alan Burns]

....whereas in fact evolution neither knows nor cares what species it produces.

You are making a gross assertion here.
If there is a Creator, what has been created was obviously intended.

[Maeght]

What is dishonest about a sincere belief that the billions of beneficial mutations which brought us into existence did not happen by chance?

I'd think it is dishonest to try to argue from a scientific point of view and to assert that things are impossible, like you do, when really it is all really about your belief in God.

[Shaker]

You are making a gross assertion here.
If there is a Creator, what has been created was obviously intended.

Not much of an assertion. A biological process can give rise to purposefulness and intentionality once it reaches a product with a certain level of complexity - as it did in numerous species on the planet - but the dumb biochemical process in and of itself can have no such attributes. That's as daft as saying that the hydrological cycle has conscious intentionality. It's classic emergence: the result of the process can have features that the components cannot.

Your 'if' is very telling, of course.

[Shaker]

You will have to put it down to my God given stubbornness, because I can't accept that my belief in God's creative intervention to bring me into existence is a mistake.

And always we return to the trough of self-aggrandisement

[Stranger]

They make perfect sense to me, which is why I share them.

Seriously? You can't see that you are using blind faith? Applying double standards? You dismiss things like unguided evolution with nothing but incredulity and yet you accept your god without a hint of objective evidence or reasoning...?

[wigginhall]

And always we return to the trough of self-aggrandisement

Yes, it's quite comical really.   Here I am in all my wonderfulness, therefore God.   PS. this can't be a mistake, as God would not deceive anyone as marvelous as me. 

[wigginhall]

Seriously? You can't see that you are using blind faith? Applying double standards? You dismiss things like unguided evolution with nothing but incredulity and yet you accept your god without a hint of objective evidence or reasoning...?

Another aspect of the pervasive dishonesty of these posts by AB.   

[Enki]

They make perfect sense to me, which is why I share them.

You may call it 'sharing', I would rather describe it as 'attempted evangelising' which, apart from those of like mind,  doesn't seem to cut much ice on this thread for reasons which various people have made painfully clear.

[Alan Burns]

...... requiring one to become a lifelong science denier

I am not sure what you mean by a science denier.  My posts have never denied what science has achieved.  I have just highlighted areas which have a spiritual dimension which science can't define.

[Shaker]

I am not sure what you mean by a science denier.  My posts have never denied what science has achieved.  I have just highlighted areas which have a spiritual dimension which science can't define.

... in your assertion opinion only, of course.

[Alan Burns]

You can't see that you are using blind faith?

It might seem blind to you, but God is very real to me.

[torridon]

I am not sure what you mean by a science denier.  My posts have never denied what science has achieved.  I have just highlighted areas which have a spiritual dimension which science can't define.

What, you mean you have completely forgotten about your root and branch denial of the modern synthesis of evolutionary biology ?  has it slipped your mind that you have been consistently denying that we have been making any progress in consciousness research at all over recent decades ? You reject outright the insights from cognitive research with respect to the nature of will and of self.  You deny the majority of brain function involved in perception claiming it is a function of soul instead.  But all your science denial pales into insignificance compared to the crimes against fundamental logic that is a hallmark of much of your thinking.

[Stranger]

Seriously? You can't see that you are using blind faith? Applying double standards? You dismiss things like unguided evolution with nothing but incredulity and yet you accept your god without a hint of objective evidence or reasoning...?

You can't see that you are using blind faith?

It might seem blind to you, but God is very real to me.

I see you sidestepped the double standards. Why won't you apply some of the same credulity that you apply to other areas, to your own acceptance of an interpretation of an experience?

You have been unable to come up with any objective evidence or any logical reasoning to support said interpretation.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Floo,

Just because your faith is real to you doesn't mean it is real to others like myself. Been there, got the T shirt, and didn't find god real at all.

Small, medium, large or XXL, the size of the T shirt I think is important.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Just because your faith is real to you doesn't mean it is real to others like myself. Been there, got the T shirt, and didn't find god real at all.

Nor does anybody else ... they just misinterpret what they are experiencing.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Nor does anybody else ... they just misinterpret what they are experiencing.

I see Len is on Assertotron duty today.

[Leonard James]

I see Len is on Assertotron duty today.

Since the only alternative is that all the thousands of gods are real, we have to take the assertion as fact. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Since the only alternative is that all the thousands of gods are real, we have to take the assertion as fact. 

LOL with a hint of ROFL.

[jjohnjil]

Who'd have thunk it, indeed. Obviously you, and people like you, but certainly not me, or people like me. We have totally different views to you.

I can see that irony to you, enki, is the thing you press your shirts with..

[bluehillside Retd.]

Alan,

Me:

....whereas in fact evolution neither knows nor cares what species it produces.

You:

You are making a gross assertion here.
If there is a Creator, what has been created was obviously intended.

First, IF there are invisible pixies holding stuff down with very thin strings then gravity doesn't work either. You can "if" anything you like, but all that gives you is speculation.

Second, that evolution does not know or care (and cannot know or care) what organisms will emerge has been exhaustively demonstrated in nature and tested in the lab. Life adapts in response to environmental change - blueprints of the species that it will produce are entirely unnecessary for that to be the case.

Third, congratulations - I really though you'd collapse immediately back into circular reasoning whereas it's actually taken you a dozen posts or so before you've done so. You started by using your personal incredulity based on your (mis)understanding of evolution as an argument for "God". Now you posit a "what if" god in the first place to explain your (mis)understanding of evolution.

I did ask you a while back whether you understood the term "circular reasoning", but you ignored the question.

It seems I now have my answer.

[Enki]

I can see that irony to you, enki, is the thing you press your shirts with..

Indeed, you're right. I am now in the process of changing my iron for a much better model which will, I hope, enable me to look more carefully at the clothes I am pressing.

Apologies offered, jjohnjil