Searching for GOD...

[Khatru]

I have all the evidence I need.  After removing the obstacles to faith, I have come to know God, because He has made Himself known to me.  I realise that this may look like self delusion from outside the faith, but from inside, I can say with confidence that God's love is real.

Yes.

Clearly your god loves you but didn't care much for Keegan Downer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-36203074

[Rhiannon]

As I said, nothing in this world can separate me from God's love.

I could tell you the moment I realised God wasn't real, Alan. I was sitting in a rocking chair nursing my baby daughter. No crisis point, no events good or bad. Just an ordinary night time.

I fought it for a couple of years of deep unhappiness before finally giving it up as a bad job. It was a massive relief.

Don't think for a nanosecond that it can't happen to you.

[BeRational]

It is quite amusing, but the only conclusion I can make is that the monkey on the left prefers grapes to cucumber.  It is not exactly a challenge to my faith.

I see you are hiding from the truth.

The monkey was perfectly happy with cucumber as long as the other monkey did not get the more valued grape.

You are dishonest.

[ippy]

I can assure you that being aware of God's love is more attractive than you can ever imagine.

I suppose it would be to people that have your vivid kind of self induced unrealistic imagination.

ippy

[ippy]

Pots and kettles floo!!! You keep saying the opposite over and over as if to prove to yourself that is it's true, too! 
Seriously, Alan just says what he believes and takes the consequent ridicule on the chin, bless.  At least he's pleasant, doesn't appear to get anyone's backs up.

Alan hasn't ever come up with any kind of rational evidence, that would support his assertions, come to that you seem to be a bit of a religio, why? There's nothing that would support your standpoint either.

The main trouble with him and his kind is the perpetuation of these unfounded primitive beliefs, where they insist on infecting the next generation with their, not so harmless, nonsense.

Alan and his kind should be challenged about their bronze age beliefs at every available occasion possible, they are only beliefs.

ippy

[Enki]

Dear Keeper of the Sacred Waistcoat,

Ah well! is our Alan tickling your periaqueductal grey, more importantly is Alan tickling the bad part of your periaqueductal grey, if so then you would not be posting on this wonderful thread, you would walk away, not come near this thread, but no, you and most other posters are drawn to this thread and to our Alan, so does that mean that Alan is actually tickling the good part of your Jelly bean, the part responsible for orgasmic delight

Gonnagle.

I think you could be right, Gonners. I have to personally admit to seeing Alan's posts as a rather distressing case of confusion, ignorance, complacency and attempted prosletyzing via totally unfounded assertions. I find that painful, so perhaps my periaqueductal gray is indeed being activated. Purely a natural reaction, of course.

[Gonnagle]

Dear enki,

Ah right! so the fact that we all return to this thread, to Alan's chuntering, we all enjoy pain, we are all just a bunch of sadomasochists, that's nice

Gonnagle.

[Enki]

Dear enki,

Ah right! so the fact that we all return to this thread, to Alan's chuntering, we all enjoy pain, we are all just a bunch of sadomasochists, that's nice

Gonnagle.

Well, if you're right, that must include Alan, too.  After all, as far as I can see, he seems to return to this thread almost daily, so perhaps he's getting his masochistic fix in abundance. Obviously, as you agree,  this also includes you too. Perhaps it's simply a case of the masochist wanting to be hurt, and those who walk away from this thread are like the sadist, who says, "No, I won't hurt you".

[Khatru]

As I have said many times before, WHAT LOVE?

It's a special, conditional love dependant on your submission and having his son murdered.

[wigginhall]

Dear enki,

Ah right! so the fact that we all return to this thread, to Alan's chuntering, we all enjoy pain, we are all just a bunch of sadomasochists, that's nice

Gonnagle.

Maybe you have a point, but Alan's dreck has brought up many interesting replies, for example, from Torridon.  Alan is incredulous about evolution, brain science, study of cognition, the use of logic, and so when people reply to this, they are coming up with fascinating material.   Torridon's posts are terrific, especially, as he actually has some information!   

This is true of  others as well, but Torridon isn't saying, I really really have faith that the brain produces consciousness, he is citing research findings that point in that direction.   

[Gonnagle]

Dear Wigs,

Most definitely, it is Torridon I have to thank for the little course I am now studying.

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/what-is-a-mind/3/todo/4187

Fascinating stuff, and the remarkable part is some of it is actually sticking to my old grey cells, hey!! is that where we get the grey in grey cells from, periaqueductal grey, part of the extended reticular activating system .

If you have been looking for your "I" who you are, this is where it lives, snuff out, damage your extended reticular activating system and you cease to be ( I think ).

Gonnagle.

[Alan Burns]

I too admire Torridon's posts on this thread.  They are always interesting, thoughtful and thought provoking.  I am sorry that I may not have given him the credit he deserves.

Whilst not denying the truth contained in his posts, I have tried to show that they do not give the full picture.  The reality of our existence has a spiritual dimension which does not contradict our scientific discoveries, but fits in perfectly to explain the true reality in which we live.  And I can look upon this reality with wonder and awe.

[Brownie]

Dear Wigs,

Most definitely, it is Torridon I have to thank for the little course I am now studying.

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/what-is-a-mind/3/todo/4187

Fascinating stuff, and the remarkable part is some of it is actually sticking to my old grey cells, hey!! is that where we get the grey in grey cells from, periaqueductal grey, part of the extended reticular activating system .

If you have been looking for your "I" who you are, this is where it lives, snuff out, damage your extended reticular activating system and you cease to be ( I think ).

Gonnagle.

Quite right Gonnagle, though I've been doing it in fits and starts and without any sound on the computer, cannot do videos, but it is fascinating and something we can revisit after the course finishes.  Thank you Torridon.

AB, I understand what you are saying.  We cannot expect others to do so, you're one of the most patient posters on here.  Long may you continue to post.

[BeRational]

Quite right Gonnagle, though I've been doing it in fits and starts and without any sound on the computer, cannot do videos, but it is fascinating and something we can revisit after the course finishes.  Thank you Torridon.

AB, I understand what you are saying.  We cannot expect others to do so, you're one of the most patient posters on here.  Long may you continue to post.

He is not patient. He is just repetitive and refuses to admit when he is wrong.

He makes stuff up, and moves the goalposts when his arguments (to flatter his posts) are defeated.

His posts are little more than lalalala I am not listening.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

Whilst not denying the truth contained in his posts,...

You seem to have forgotten that you have consistently denied "the truth" of science in a range of fields of study, generally by expressing your personal incredulity when its findings contradict your faith beliefs.

I have tried to show that they do not give the full picture.

No-one suggests that science does provide "the full picture". That's why people keep doing it.

The reality of our existence has a spiritual dimension which does not contradict our scientific discoveries, but fits in perfectly to explain the true reality in which we live.  And I can look upon this reality with wonder and awe.

That may be your reality but - so far at least - all you've been able to offer to support it is some very bad thinking and repeated assertions. If you want instead to attempt an argument to the effect that your personal, subjective reality is also reality for other people then - finally - you'll have to make a coherent and cogent argument to that effect.

And no, your Violet Elizabeth Bott style, "It'th twoo, it'th twoo I tell you!" foot stamping doesn't even get its trousers off for that purpose.

[wigginhall]

I too admire Torridon's posts on this thread.  They are always interesting, thoughtful and thought provoking.  I am sorry that I may not have given him the credit he deserves.

Whilst not denying the truth contained in his posts, I have tried to show that they do not give the full picture.  The reality of our existence has a spiritual dimension which does not contradict our scientific discoveries, but fits in perfectly to explain the true reality in which we live.  And I can look upon this reality with wonder and awe.

That's odd, I could have sworn that you were saying that neurons in the brain cannot produce consciousness, and that only the soul can explain this.   That does contradict scientific discoveries, as brain science is showing that there is an intimate connection between neural activity and thought.   

More goal-post moving, I guess. 

[Alan Burns]

You seem to have forgotten that you have consistently denied "the truth" of science in a range of fields of study, generally by expressing your personal incredulity when its findings contradict your faith beliefs.

If you read my posts correctly, you will find that I do not contradict what science has discovered.  My personal incredulity simply acknowledges the limitations of what can be deduced from scientific investigation.  As I have said, material science can explain part, but not the whole of reality.  We need to look beyond material science to discover the whole truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

[Alan Burns]

That's odd, I could have sworn that you were saying that neurons in the brain cannot produce consciousness, and that only the soul can explain this.   That does contradict scientific discoveries, as brain science is showing that there is an intimate connection between neural activity and thought.   

I did not deny there was a connection between neural activity and conscious awareness.  What I said was that correlation does not necessarily imply causation. There is no definition of how chemical activity alone can cause conscious awareness.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

If you read my posts correctly, you will find that I do not contradict what science has discovered.

That's simply not true.

My personal incredulity simply acknowledges the limitations of what can be deduced from scientific investigation.

No, you use your personality incredulity to assert that the science must be wrong - about evolution for example.

Moreover, you've made no argument of any kind to suggest that there are limits to what can be deduced from scientific investigation - rather you've just asserted it.

As I have said, material science can explain part, but not the whole of reality.

And as I have said, no-one thinks otherwise - that's why people keep doing science so as to find out more. Absent any other method to distinguish truths from just guessing, for now at least science is the only tool we can consistently and reliably use to do that. 

We need to look beyond material science to discover the whole truth.

So you assert. What makes you think that there is a "whole truth", that we could ever know when we'd found it, and that you have a means of discovery of it that's more reliable than science to do the job?

[floo]

It's a special, conditional love dependant on your submission and having his son murdered.

What a b*stard!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What a b*stard!

If this is the Floo of her own shopping list......... I don't know how people can follow such a character.

[wigginhall]

I did not deny there was a connection between neural activity and conscious awareness.  What I said was that correlation does not necessarily imply causation. There is no definition of how chemical activity alone can cause conscious awareness.

But surely you are denying that the brain causes consciousness, since you are arguing that the soul does it.  Talking of definitions, any luck with defining how the soul actually does this?   I mean, you wouldn't want anybody to be incredulous, if you can't describe it, would you?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Wiggs,

But surely you are denying that the brain causes consciousness, since you are arguing that the soul does it.  Talking of definitions, any luck with defining how the soul actually does this?   I mean, you wouldn't want anybody to be incredulous, if you can't describe it, would you?

Ooh no no no no no...

The Alan Burns methods has three steps:

1. Flatly contradict the findings of science, neuroscience in particular.

2. Assert into existence something called a "soul" to plug the gap in understanding, but steadfastly avoid ever defining it or explaining how it might work.

3. Er, that's it.

[Alan Burns]

No, you use your personality incredulity to assert that the science must be wrong - about evolution for example.

What I have dared to suggest is that some of the beneficial mutations needed for the evolution process could be guided by creative forces to produce a specific goal.  There is no way to prove or disprove whether each beneficial mutation was due to random events, but looking at the complexity of the finished product might well indicate that some intelligent intervention was needed.

[wigginhall]

Wiggs,

Ooh no no no no no...

The Alan Burns methods has three steps:

1. Flatly contradict the findings of science, neuroscience in particular.

2. Assert into existence something called a "soul" to plug the gap in understanding, but steadfastly avoid ever defining it or explaining how it might work.

3. Er, that's it.

Say it ain't so!  I thought that after the long build-up - AB saying for weeks that a material brain can't produce consciousness, and hasn't been described doing that - we were getting to the climax, where he would unveil his full master plan of how the soul does it.   

I'm falling into the pit of incredulity, come on, Alan, rescue me.   Show me how the soul do do it.  I don't care if there are little pieces of string or elastic bands, or superglue is involved, or wodgits, but give me something.