Searching for GOD...

[Gordon]

The message in Christianity is the risen Jesus though. A dynamic risen Jesus is different from a message which can be spun.

Which is, ironically, an example of 'spin'.

[Rhiannon]

I understand how 'accepting a dynamic risen Jesus' is transformative for those for whom it's real. What I find unpleasant is the idea that those who don't accept that do so because of personal flaws, selfishness or fear.

[Sassy]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Jesus was the only innocent man to be crucified? IS crucify innocent people now. Or cage them and burn them alive. St Peter was crucified upside down IIRC - what was he guilty of?

Show the others to be without sin.

You see Rhiannon, you pretend to be ignorant of all the things you proudly profess and use in defense of your comments  against Christianity. So we can see you are being deceitful in pretending  that you did not know; -- you know Christs innocence was about him never having committed a sin.  Peter sinned we both know he did... he denied Christ..
But he was guilty of being a Christian a follower of Christ. As we know Christ told him of his betrayal and his final ending and yet you arrogantly produce that as an answer having claimed to know your Christ?

The above list did not die because they were guilty of sin even though Christ was the ONLY person to have died who had never sinned.  These people died because people out there do not know God or Christ and they kill their fellow human beings because somehow they believe they have cause to do so whether right or wrong in the worlds eyes.

Just as atheists and pagans think they have right to dis God and Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did no harm to you so why dis him now? Had you ever really professed Christ as Lord and meant it in your heart, you could not dis him now.


So now I KNOW that you will either be sad at the above truth and wish you had never written it.
Or you will be angry because you know the truth about yourself and having never really known or loved God or Christ.

We all have burdens but in life and in truth we know and learn that those burdens are not truth changers.
If we deliberately gave up belief in God it does not change the truth that God and Christ are real.

Life isn't always easy.... but the one essential truth of Christianity is that Christ alone was the only man without sin.

Maybe it was something you needed reminding about.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Jesus was the only innocent man to be crucified?

You did know what I mean just as you knew that it was the reason death and hell could not hold him.

Or you were never a Christian in any way whatsoever.  It is the most essential truth that one man paid the penalty an innocent man. Having suffered the death we deserved for OUR SINS, he rose from the grave because death and hell could not hold the innocent person. And it is his death and innocence that pays the penalty for our own. So everyone dies once and then to eternal life.

[floo]

Jesus was a flawed individual just like the rest of us, if the gospel accounts of some of his deeds were correct.

[Sassy]

Your ignorance is shameful. When the Romans crucified people, they would normally just nail them up and leave them there. Sometimes the victims would take days to die. Jesus got off rather lightly by the standards of the times.

Why make a reply off the top of your head?
A reply which showed you knew less than nothing.
Look up crucifixion in Jerusalem.
You can then come back and make good your post which is untrue.

I didn't ask him to die. It's his own fault.

What is his own fault... Can you ask someone to die for you who lived 2,000 years ago?
Did you ask Gods permission to sin? So you accept your sin and death are entirely your own fault?
You choose not to accept Christs sacrifice and die in your sin?
That is what you choose but the fact is you had a choice you never had before so will die in your sin because you choose to do so. But you did have an alternative.

Nonsense. Thousands of people were crucified. It would be remarkable if Jesus was the only one who was innocent.

Self -Deceitful to say the least...

Why would you ask him to die? Did anyone ask him to die? What was his own fault?
What crime had Christ really committed if the Son of God or not?  We both know he was the only person crucified who had not sinned.
What the man said:  He has committed no crime.... He has not sinned and not committed a crime.
That truth will remain etched on your mind forever.


As will this truth... He died for you, so you could have life.

[floo]

More assertions no evidence!

[Sassy]

Hang on John 13:34 claims "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another".

Khat was just pointing out that this command was nothing new... Jainism and Hinduism have had this rule embedded in their teachings for millennia before Christianity.

Where is the forgiveness and eternal life in that love?
You see there were things added to religions later not written in their holy books.
But where was there ever one man without sin who loves us that he died for us?

Oh, and it also shows your ignorance about the earlier religions. Especially Jainism which is a nontheistic religion.. "Read your history properly". Not some half-cocked jerk reaction!!

Your ignorance is astounding seeing a Chinese religion they reckon a million years old told of only one God and they believe that is the religion the wise men travelled to seek Christ the true Saviour of the world told in their religion.
Now stop the high horse and pretending. You were told years ago about this other religion.
Older than any of the religions above. And more truth to it than you want to allow.

You need to read history properly and the fact that you cherry pick, WILL make you mad as hell. But my truth goes further back than any you know. You see God and Christ can witness to the truth of the OT and those religions have nothing that goes back to the creation of mankind or a living God who actually acts on his word.
The proof of Gods word is in the outcome. Those other religions and books with writing on pages remain their lifeless.

You and I, both know if Christianity and Judaism had not existed you would never have become involved in seeking the truth.
But you keep passing over the truth in the hope you will find something else. But you never do.

[Sassy]

Does anybody care to make a stab at what the fuck this means?

Whoa poor fall back there... Like standing in the middle of a rugby match and asking what game are we playing.
Dropped the ball did you?

They didn't need a "saviour".  They take responsibility for their own actions!

Since when? Even you cannot pretend to be that thick that you can make that remark and think everyone cannot see you are masking the fact you understood what I said... How would taking responsibility for their own actions refer to not needing a saviour?  Really dumb that one! 

How can you "add" something that was prevalent before your "thing"?

You mean like God being at the beginning and the end? Or even Adam being the first human and sinning causing us to be born of fallen flesh and nature of man?
Do you really need me to spell out what you have supposedly studied for years? Whose playing dumb now?

Which particular Pagans are you referring to here missus?

Like you don't have  clue .... how many different types of pagans are there?

Also Idol: "An idol is an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed or any person or thing regarded with admiration"

How many Idols are representative of Christianity?

There are no idols because God is the One and ONLY TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD.
No graven images no worship of nature and you knew that... wasting time again.

[Sassy]

Who created Hell for the devil? In fact, do you even know what Jesus would have understood as a "devil/satan"?

Do you know Jesus? Well when you do, you will know the answer, too.

[Sassy]

I'm sure all the Jews the Romans crucified at the time felt the same!!

All the Jews crucified did not suffer the full extent of punishment as Christ did.
His crucifixion was unique having the full punishment of the law. They would break the legs of men to hurry the
process of dying by suffocation so as not to overflow into the Sabbath.
Christ did not require his legs being broken as he had already died from the beating and whipping which caused massive blood
loss. He also had his side pierced with a spear where blood and water flowed confirming he had died.

You know these things or have you forgot?

[Sassy]

O' dear... If you knew your history you would realise so many things about the crucifixion stories that don't make sense and some that do.

Can you make a stab at which parts of the stories make historical sense, against those which don't?

What history? What crucifixion stories that don't make sense and do?

What do those stories have to do with the Son of God, Jesus Christ? Will it throw any light on his crucifixion or resurrection?
Will it explain the truth about him being the Son of God and the Messiah to you?

So what purpose do they really have or hold in what you are learning?

You know I have no time for deliberate red- herrings... Stop messing about B.

[Sassy]

And you know this was a factual event that's been accurately recorded how, exactly?

Well, had you actually been a Christian, you could have asked Jesus Christ and known the answer.

What exactly did you learn from God in the years you were a believer?

[Sassy]

So only Christians are capable of sacrificial love?

Putting others before themselves/.... definitely.

Christ died for sinners giving himself as a sacrifice willingly for ungrateful others who would dis his sacrifice.
Selfless love is what makes sacrificial love possible.

Christ has no personal motive or gain for what he did...

Love that is based in Spirit and Truth....

[Sassy]

Of course it's relevant... If the letters of Paul are our first point of contact to the "christ" then how the next stories develop are just as important.

Do you realise that the stories of the Christ follow the letters of Paul by at least a generation?

How long is a generation, or two?

You do this purposely Thrud,

The first point of contact to Christ are the OT scriptures. (Christ made something very plain)

King James Bible
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You see the true point of contact for any believer is not Paul or the disciples and their writings.
It is the truth told through the Prophets. The truth about the Messiah and the New Covenant of Jeremiah.

The Prophets and people of the OT had this in common they knew God and the Prophets received the Holy Spirit.
We see the truth about Christ bring that same baptism that belief in Christ brings the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The words of Christ and his teachings are what the OT teaches.

You do what so many atheists do. You believe the believers faith depends on the teachings of the written word in the NT and the disciples and Paul. But the truth is the believers faith depends on the words of the OT becoming a reality in the words of Christ in the NT.
Yes you do need to read it for context...

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


It is by Spirit and truth we know God and Jesus Christ.
It is not reliant on scripture or written words. The power of the word is the Holy Spirit.

" My words are Spirit and they are life"  Christ's testimony and the same taught in the OT that not by might nor power but by my Spirit.

So you are looking in the wrong place for the truth. You are looking at Paul and not at Christ.
Christs words should match the OT. And for the believe they do. But the truth is found in belief in Christ and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
John 16:13 (KJV)

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.



A living present day relationship with God through his Spirit.

What are you going to do now? Your search for truth is at an end. You now know you will never find the answers by examining Paul or anything he wrote. You will make no headway in Christianity now.
You cannot enter into the truth of Gods Spirit teaching you because you barred that way.
So what now? You alone get to choose.... Gods way or your own highway...

[Khatru]

Putting others before themselves/.... definitely.

Christ died for sinners giving himself as a sacrifice willingly for ungrateful others who would dis his sacrifice.
Selfless love is what makes sacrificial love possible.

Christ has no personal motive or gain for what he did...

Love that is based in Spirit and Truth....

Poor Sass

Reduced to defending the killing of babies and unable to disagree with those who hold a different worldview without thinking they will be tortured by your god for all eternity.

Remember Anne Frank?  I'm sure you do - she was Jewish and she wrote a famous diary.
 
The innocence and hope in her diary is an inspiration and despite all that she went through.  She wrote lines like:

"In spite of everything I still believe that people are truly good at heart"

"Everyone has inside of him a piece of good news. The good news is that you don't know how great you can be! How much you can love! What you can accomplish! And what your potential is!"

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before beginning to improve the world."

She died at the age of fifteen in a death camp ran by a nation that was populated by an overwhelming Christian majority. 

What was her crime?  Like millions of believers the world over, she was born into and adopted the faith of her parents and culture and for that she had to die and that's that.

Well, actually, no, that's not that. 

Why?

Because according to your belief system, Anne Frank is now in hell alongside Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.  Anne never accepted Jesus and for that she must be tortured for all eternity.

And you say I'm evil

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11564.msg590166#msg590166

[Rhiannon]

Well, yes. Sass thinks that because we are all sinners we can be tortured to death unjustly.

[Maeght]

Your ignorance is astounding seeing a Chinese religion they reckon a million years old .......

A million years old? Are you referring to Shangdi? This god dates back to around 2000 b.c. and  doesn't appear to have been considered the only God but the supreme god amongst others.

[Khatru]

A million years old? Are you referring to Shangdi? This god dates back to around 2000 b.c. and  doesn't appear to have been considered the only God but the supreme god amongst others.

A million years ago? 

That predates homo sapiens and takes us into the time of homo erectus who were, no doubt closer to the image of God than homo sapiens are.

http://cdn.ancienthistorylists.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Homo-Erectus.jpg

[ippy]

Sass, see if you can write something about your 'beliefs', without making assertions that you are so obviously unable back up with any evidence whatsoever.

In other words a complete about face from the nonsense you normaly spit out, but don't do it if you think it might induce a breakdown

ippy

 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Jesus was a flawed individual just like the rest of us, if the gospel accounts of some of his deeds were correct.

Great to see another atheist come aboard objective morality.

[BeRational]

Great to see another atheist come aboard objective morality.

Did Jesus approve of slavery?

Do you?

[Sassy]

Well, yes. Sass thinks that because we are all sinners we can be tortured to death unjustly.

Is that what paganism teaches you? When people tell the truth about pagans being the culprits who sacrificed their children
You tell lies about Christians today whose God has always said it was an abomination something he hated?

It is clear from my posts that I preach love God and love others. None of my posts advocates or teaches that it is okay to torture people to death unjustly. As my God teaches forgiveness... is it really any wonder given your post that pagans found it acceptable to murder  their children when they tell untruths about others?

Sad innit Rhiannon, how your true colours come to the forefront when confronted with the truth.

Jesus Christ said:

King James Bible
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

It means I am truly blessed when you a pagan do as Christ has said. Not angry and not even getting my back-up.
Because greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.

You see truth is far greater than lies.

The thing is both you and I, as well as everyone here know that your last statement above was untrue.

[floo]

What is there to love about god?

[BeRational]

What is there to love about god?

Exactly, god approves of slavery and is a mass murderer.

[floo]

Exactly, god approves of slavery and is a mass murderer.

But of course some people probably loved Hitler too!