Searching for GOD...

[BeRational]

But of course some people probably loved Hitler too!

I think he was adored and hated in equal measure.

Perhaps by the same people at different time.

[wigginhall]

Stockholm syndrome, isn't it?  People kow-tow to bullies.

[jjohnjil]

You see truth is far greater than lies.

The thing is both you and I, as well as everyone here know that your last statement above was untrue.

Sassy

Everyone here does not know that Rhiannon's last statement is untrue - I would say, just the opposite!

You are always asserting that everyone agrees with you, when the fact is, only TW and Spud ever agree with your version of things religious.   And to have TW as an ally, who needs enemies!

[floo]

Sassy

Everyone here does not know that Rhiannon's last statement is untrue - I would say, just the opposite!

You are always asserting that everyone agrees with you, when the fact is, only TW and Spud ever agree with your version of things religious.   And to have TW as an ally, who needs enemies!

[Dicky Underpants]

Sassy

Everyone here does not know that Rhiannon's last statement is untrue - I would say, just the opposite!

You are always asserting that everyone agrees with you, when the fact is, only TW and Spud ever agree with your version of things religious.   And to have TW as an ally, who needs enemies!

Not even with TW and Spud on some Christian fundamentals: those two are Trinitarians, whereas Sass is an Arian (but something quite distinct from those two modern Arian groups, the JWs and the Christadelphians). Truly in a class of her own

[floo]

Not even with TW and Spud on some Christian fundamentals: those two are Trinitarians, whereas Sass is an Arian (but something quite distinct from those two modern Arian groups, the JWs and the Christadelphians). Truly in a class of her own

I had never heard of the term 'Arian' before in connection with religion.

[Dicky Underpants]

I had never heard of the term 'Arian' before in connection with religion.

Well you should have. Perhaps you were thinking of "Aryan", with its overtones of Hitler's master race.
"Arian" with an "I" refers to the ideas of Arius and his followers - one of the first major Christian heresies. Its main belief is that Christ was less than God.

Arianism is often considered to be a form of Unitarian theology in that it stresses God’s unity at the expense of the notion of the Trinity, the doctrine that three distinct persons are united in one Godhead. Arius’s basic premise was the uniqueness of God, who is alone self-existent (not dependent for its existence on anything else) and immutable; the Son, who is not self-existent, cannot therefore be the self-existent and immutable God. Because the Godhead is unique, it cannot be shared or communicated. Because the Godhead is immutable, the Son, who is mutable, must, therefore, be deemed a creature who has been called into existence out of nothing and has had a beginning. Moreover, the Son can have no direct knowledge of the Father, since the Son is finite and of a different order of existence.

(from Britannica)

[floo]

Well you should have. Perhaps you were thinking of "Aryan", with its overtones of Hitler's master race.
"Arian" with an "I" refers to the ideas of Arius and his followers - one of the first major Christian heresies. Its main belief is that Christ was less than God.


(from Britannica)

Well I haven't ever heard of it. I did once ask Sass how she would classify her take on the faith, but as usual answer came there none.

[Leonard James]

Well you should have. Perhaps you were thinking of "Aryan", with its overtones of Hitler's master race.
"Arian" with an "I" refers to the ideas of Arius and his followers - one of the first major Christian heresies. Its main belief is that Christ was less than God.


(from Britannica)

It seems that no matter what religious rubbish people dream up, there are always fools prepared to believe it!

The human race needs quite a few more thousand years of evolution to perfect it's mental abilities.

[Dicky Underpants]

It seems that no matter what religious rubbish people dream up, there are always fools prepared to believe it!

The human race needs quite a few more thousand years of evolution to perfect it's mental abilities.

I quite like the Arian view, Len, in some ways. If you're prepared to believe that there's a God at all (which I no longer do, as you know), then it does indeed take a fair degree of rubbish-swallowing ability to think that Jesus was God incarnate (the standard Trinitarian view). The Arian view that Christ didn't actually create everything was perhaps a small step in the right direction?

Anyway, that's mostly all in the past now, though the doctrines of Arius did sweep through Europe at one time, getting down to Spain via the Visigoths before the Muslim conquest. All wiped out by the increasingly dominant Catholics with their Trinitarian view. And all over nothing that could be proved or humanly perceived in any way.....

[Leonard James]

I quite like the Arian view, Len, in some ways. If you're prepared to believe that there's a God at all (which I no longer do, as you know), then it does indeed take a fair degree of rubbish-swallowing ability to think that Jesus was God incarnate (the standard Trinitarian view). The Arian view that Christ didn't actually create everything was perhaps a small step in the right direction?

Anyway, that's mostly all in the past now, though the doctrines of Arius did sweep through Europe at one time, getting down to Spain via the Visigoths before the Muslim conquest. All wiped out by the increasingly dominant Catholics with their Trinitarian view. And all over nothing that could be proved or humanly perceived in any way.....

It's all quite short and simple, really. The fact is that we perceive the universe to exist, and as yet we have found no explanation for it.

End of story. 

[Brownie]

Wotcha Len, long time no see.

[Leonard James]

Hola, Brownie.

Yes, I got a tad bored with the same old nonsense over and over. The world of reality is far more interesting. 

[Brownie]

Good for you.

[floo]

Hola, Brownie.

Yes, I got a tad bored with the same old nonsense over and over. The world of reality is far more interesting. 

Nice to see you are still alive and kicking. I agree that reality is more exciting than this forum at present.

[Alan Burns]

I have been reading a fascinating book containing witness stories from Christians in the middle east.  It is entitled "Meet Me at the Olive Tree" by Julia Fisher.  One particularly impressive story comes from a Christian Arab who was living alongside Messianic Jews and other Christian Arabs in an area of Jerusalem.  He was called by God to leave his comfort zone, and put his life at risk by going into the West Bank to bring the word of Jesus to the Palestinian Muslims.  Despite the danger to himself and others, about one in four of the people he approached were willing to hear what he said and find out more.  If the threat of expulsion or death were removed, no doubt many more would have responded.  When he was asked how Western Christian groups could help his work, his answer was quite surprising:


"To be honest, when I look at the church in the West, in my
opinion, it is even sadder than our situation here. I do not
look to the Western Christians as the ones who are going to
bring us help. Rather, I think we are the people who are going
to help them.

I really do think that the church in the West has a wrong
perspective about Islam. Our main problem is the devil. The
devil uses secularism, socialism, Islam, “false” Christianity
— and he uses the opportunity of any situation in which the
current system or culture ‘seems to be failing to offer the
temptation of a "replacement" system. So Islam is not our
enemy. The devil is our enemy. We really have to focus on the
revival of the church and preparedness, because that is the
key issue; that is what will change history.

God wants to use the church and I hope there will be an
awakening in the church in the West. That is the best thing
they could do for us! I am grateful for the faithful remnant
who pray for us and support us; I know that it is not easy for
the church in Europe. But still my message to them is that we
need to work together, to cooperate and prepare for the wave
of new believers from the Muslim world — it is near. Storms
are happening in the Arab nations."

I have endured ridicule from many people, including fellow Christians, when I mention my belief in the Devil.  Here is a person who is very close to God and doing some amazing work through the power of the Holy Spirit, who recognises the enemy.  So in our search for God and the truth, we must not become blind to the existence and nature of the real enemy.

Note - As I was reading the above extract, the page it was printed on fell out of the book.  It was a new book in very good condition, so I presume this was a sign for me to share it!

[Brownie]

Interesting post Alan and very pleasant to have a post on a Christian topic again.

I don't believe in trying to convert people, including Muslims; I thought I'd get that out before I go further.  I'm not dissing what you believe on the issue.

What I want to ponder is, how can one really know that they are receiving a call from God;  it's possible to feel impelled to do something but it could just be coming from our own conscience and our unconscious.   That's no bad thing in some ways but supposing what you feel 'called' to do is wrong?

If Sassy comes back from gardening leave, she may well say that people who really know God, will know what is a genuine call and what isn't, but most of us are less sure and suspect our own motives.

[wigginhall]

But how would I be able to know when the devil is trying to seduce me with false ideas?

[Enki]

Or perhaps you might look at the recent history of the Lebanon, Alan,  with its political problems exacerbated by the various Christian/Druze/Muslim divisions and hatreds. Could it perhaps be that this Devil that you're on about actually favours even more conflict in the Arab territories than there actually is by setting neighbour against neighbour?

[wigginhall]

I think this is it: white man speak with forked tongue, the devil. 

[Brownie]

But how would I be able to know when the devil is trying to seduce me with false ideas?

Same thing wigginhall, my point was how can we be certain that something is right or wrong?

It's possible for something to appear to be right in all ways and yet be wrong.  However, there are some who have certainty about their instincts and I am interested to know how they are so certain.

(Wiggi, it's a bit racist to suggest that only white men speak with forked tongues isn't it?  )

[wigginhall]

Same thing wigginhall, my point was how can we be certain that something is right or wrong?

It's possible for something to appear to be right in all ways and yet be wrong.  However, there are some who have certainty about their instincts and I am interested to know how they are so certain.

(Wiggi, it's a bit racist to suggest that only white men speak with forked tongues isn't it?  )

Gosh, you're right. OK: fuzzy-wuzzies speak with forked tongue - devils.

This is an old argument - that people feel certain.   Well, people have felt certain about all kinds of things, often contradictory.   Read AB's old posts, which go on a nice large circle, I am sure that God is speaking to me, how do I know that, well, if he wasn't why would I be able to say it?  Or something.

[Brownie]

That's what I am asking, with no prejudice.

[wigginhall]

That's what I am asking, with no prejudice.

Well, you won't get an answer, except that 'I'm really really really convinced'.   There, are you convinced? 

[Brownie]

I think it highly likely that Alan is more spiritual and less 'airy fairy' than me.  When someone is called, there must be signs - on the other hand, Alan hasn't said he personally has felt called to do anything dramatic so maybe he isn't the person to ask.  I was just interested.