Searching for GOD...

[Leonard James]

I think it highly likely that Alan is more spiritual and less 'airy fairy' than me.  When someone is called, there must be signs - on the other hand, Alan hasn't said he personally has felt called to do anything dramatic so maybe he isn't the person to ask.  I was just interested.

I seem to remember him saying once when he was going to leave the forum that "God" had told him not too, and to continue posting here.

[Brownie]

Well that isn't in quite the same category as throwing yourself into the middle of a war zone, Len  .
(If I felt called to travel afar to lead a people out of bondage, I would definitely think my instincts were wrong!)

[Sebastian Toe]

Well that isn't in quite the same category as throwing yourself into the middle of a war zone, Len  .
(If I felt called to travel afar to lead a people out of bondage, I would definitely think my instincts were wrong!)

Why?

[Alan Burns]

Interesting post Alan and very pleasant to have a post on a Christian topic again.

I don't believe in trying to convert people, including Muslims; I thought I'd get that out before I go further.  I'm not dissing what you believe on the issue.

What I want to ponder is, how can one really know that they are receiving a call from God;  it's possible to feel impelled to do something but it could just be coming from our own conscience and our unconscious.   That's no bad thing in some ways but supposing what you feel 'called' to do is wrong?

If Sassy comes back from gardening leave, she may well say that people who really know God, will know what is a genuine call and what isn't, but most of us are less sure and suspect our own motives.

Discernment comes through sincere prayer, and so does the strength to act.

[Alan Burns]

I seem to remember him saying once when he was going to leave the forum that "God" had told him not too, and to continue posting here.

By praying about it, I discovered that the temptation to quit posting did not come from God.  God does not force me, but in prayer I become aware of the still, small, persistent voice which guides me,

[Alan Burns]

Or perhaps you might look at the recent history of the Lebanon, Alan,  with its political problems exacerbated by the various Christian/Druze/Muslim divisions and hatreds. Could it perhaps be that this Devil that you're on about actually favours even more conflict in the Arab territories than there actually is by setting neighbour against neighbour?

Of course the Devil promotes conflict.

But the witnessed evidence from book I quoted shows that it is faith in Jesus which is breaking down barriers and bringing Arabs and Jews together.

[Brownie]

By praying about it, I discovered that the temptation to quit posting did not come from God.  God does not force me, but in prayer I become aware of the still, small, persistent voice which guides me,

Thanks for that, Alan.
I have always been very attracted to, and respectful of, the Society of Friends, who find the still, small voice within them;  they are people who go with quiet confidence into conflict.
----
Seb:  Too much of a coward!  Seriously, I do not believe my still small voice would tell me to go into a war zone.  However when I was a very young person I was prepared to put myself out and sometimes at risk for the sake of a cause I believed in and I did find myself in the soup regularly.  Even then, though, I had my limits, always kept my eye on the way out and had my fare home!  Maybe that's innate common sense, I don't know.  Never thought I had any but I did have some self preservation instinct.
Enough of me.

[Enki]

Of course the Devil promotes conflict.

But the witnessed evidence from book I quoted shows that it is faith in Jesus which is breaking down barriers and bringing Arabs and Jews together.

Okay, let's start with the demographics of the West Bank as regards religion. Muslim 80-85%, Jewish 12-14%, Christian 1-1.5%. That's an awful lot of converting to Christianity to be achieved, don't you think, Alan? In the unlikely event that your Christian Arab(and others like him) were able to convert, say 25% of West Bank Muslims, what do you think might happen?

Now let's look at the Lebanon, where there are roughly 40% Christians(from Maronite Catholic to Greek Orthodox), 55% Muslim(Sunni and Shia) and 5% Druze. Between 1975 to 1990 a bitter civil war was fought which among the many causal reasons, inter-religious strife played a prominent part. Not a good advert for converting as many Muslims as possible in the West Bank to Christianity, I would have thought. Indeed, one might say, if one believed in the Devil that this would be an excellent way to increase conflict.

Actually, in Lebanon, there hasn't been any mass conversions of Muslims and Druze to Christianity in recent years at all. Indeed the relative percentages from 1932 to 2014 seem to suggest, if anything,  a reduction in the percentage of Christians in the Lebanon. However they have learned to live together since those dark days in an uneasy peace by having a broadly secular state where the President must be a Maronite Christian, the Prime Minister must be a Sunnite and the Speaker of its parliament must be a Shiite. No real sign here of faith in Jesus breaking down barriers, rather a sign of hard headed if uneasy compromise after a debilitating war and occupation by Syria.

[Leonard James]

Well that isn't in quite the same category as throwing yourself into the middle of a war zone, Len  .
(If I felt called to travel afar to lead a people out of bondage, I would definitely think my instincts were wrong!)

What do you consider is the difference between a call from "God" and an instinct?

[floo]

What do you consider is the difference between a call from "God" and an instinct?

A good question.

[ekim]

What do you consider is the difference between a call from "God" and an instinct?

I suspect that the answer to that would be that instinct is geared to self survival but 'a call from God' is about surrendering to the Will of God even if it kills your body.  You would have to ask those who are 'called' how they distinguish between the 'call of God' and the 'call of doctrine'.

[trippymonkey]

I thought this too but how do we know they aren't the very same thing.??

As nothing can exist 'outside God' how do we know this isn't God 'suggesting'??

Nick

[Brownie]

I suspect that the answer to that would be that instinct is geared to self survival but 'a call from God' is about surrendering to the Will of God even if it kills your body.  You would have to ask those who are 'called' how they distinguish between the 'call of God' and the 'call of doctrine'.

I've never really been 'called' which is why I asked Alan about it and how they can tell the difference between a call and an instinct.  What ekim says in his first sentence is probably right.

[wigginhall]

The call of God is another elegant circle.  No, hang on, strike elegant.   I know I've had the call of God because it told me to do something which God would want.   Come on, anyone can play this game.  It's free!

[trippymonkey]

W
How did you know God wanted you to do a certain thing - and is it different from, say, a Muslim or a Hindu?

[Alan Burns]

What do you consider is the difference between a call from "God" and an instinct?

Len,
May I quote your story as an example.

It was about fifteen years ago when Len and I were actively exchanging views on several forums, but some of the forums drifted into oblivion and I stopped posting.   I recall Len suggesting that I try a new BBC forum, but I felt I had had enough.  I still had Len's old email address and after a couple of years I felt this still small voice asking me to contact Len, so I sent an email with a new personal witness story which I felt God was asking me to share.  The email was returned saying not a valid address.  I tried looking at a few old forums, but could find no recent posts from him.  I knew he was getting on a bit, and I confess to thinking he had either passed away or become too ill to post.  So I thought that was that.

About ten years later, I felt the still small voice again asking me to try and contact Len.  My instinct told me that there was no point.  If he was still alive, he would be well into his eighties and well past the age of most forum posters.  But I obeyed the voice and tried again, and to my delight I found he was still alive and a member of this forum.  I joined up and conversed with Len, exchanging a few PMs, and discovered that his views had not changed, and I was assured by him that he would never change.  At that time I had not posted on the forum, and I just left it after sending the PMs.  A year later the voice was still there, telling me to post on the Forum.  By then, Len informed me that he had virtually given up posting and was leaving it to the younger generation to "spread the word".  But the voice persisted, and I began posting, and Len joined in again!

So against all my instincts, the still small voice wins and I am still posting.  If I did not pray, I am certain that the still small voice would not be heard.  And I am also certain that God has something very special in store for for Len.

[wigginhall]

I remember getting that still small voice about that divorcee with the dyed hair, with the big house in Bucks, you may think this is rhyming slang, but I couldn't possibly comment.

Oh, I forgot the important words - 'I am certain'.  This guarantees that God is in contact with you.

[ekim]

Len informed me that he had virtually given up posting and was leaving it to the younger generation to "spread the word".  But the voice persisted, and I began posting, and Len joined in again!

Shouldn't you have just said 'Get thee behind me Satan'.   (sorry Len).

[Brownie]

W
How did you know God wanted you to do a certain thing - and is it different from, say, a Muslim or a Hindu?

I know you were asking wiggy, not me, so ignore me by all means but my opinion is that people of any faith can be called but again we are back to the question, what is a genuine call and what isn't, what is our unconscious telling us, where are our instincts leading us.
Difficult.  I liked Alan's explanation and I don't doubt it is real for him but not everyone experiences what he does.  So I suppose we are no further forward unless Wigginhall has better ideas  (I don't think he was really saying that he had a call from God trippy).

[torridon]

Len,
May I quote your story as an example.

It was about fifteen years ago when Len and I were actively exchanging views on several forums, but some of the forums drifted into oblivion and I stopped posting.   I recall Len suggesting that I try a new BBC forum, but I felt I had had enough.  I still had Len's old email address and after a couple of years I felt this still small voice asking me to contact Len, so I sent an email with a new personal witness story which I felt God was asking me to share.  The email was returned saying not a valid address.  I tried looking at a few old forums, but could find no recent posts from him.  I knew he was getting on a bit, and I confess to thinking he had either passed away or become too ill to post.  So I thought that was that.

About ten years later, I felt the still small voice again asking me to try and contact Len.  My instinct told me that there was no point.  If he was still alive, he would be well into his eighties and well past the age of most forum posters.  But I obeyed the voice and tried again, and to my delight I found he was still alive and a member of this forum.  I joined up and conversed with Len, exchanging a few PMs, and discovered that his views had not changed, and I was assured by him that he would never change.  At that time I had not posted on the forum, and I just left it after sending the PMs.  A year later the voice was still there, telling me to post on the Forum.  By then, Len informed me that he had virtually given up posting and was leaving it to the younger generation to "spread the word".  But the voice persisted, and I began posting, and Len joined in again!

So against all my instincts, the still small voice wins and I am still posting.  If I did not pray, I am certain that the still small voice would not be heard.  And I am also certain that God has something very special in store for for Len.

If God wanted to contact Len he would do well to put voices in his head, not yours, all else would be a recipe for confusion and distrust

[wigginhall]

That reminds me of the old joke about telepathy - how do you know that they're not your thoughts?

[ippy]

By praying about it, I discovered that the temptation to quit posting did not come from God.  God does not force me, but in prayer I become aware of the still, small, persistent voice which guides me,

Oh dear Alan, perhaps it's time to refresh the silver paper in your hat.

ippy

[bluehillside Retd.]

Brownie,

I've never really been 'called'...

I wouldn't worry about it - no-one else has either. There are though some like Alan who see supernatural agency in natural events, and it seems find the thought a comforting one too. So much more thrilling to have been "called" don't you think that just to have acted according to your instinct and reason.   

[wigginhall]

I know you were asking wiggy, not me, so ignore me by all means but my opinion is that people of any faith can be called but again we are back to the question, what is a genuine call and what isn't, what is our unconscious telling us, where are our instincts leading us.
Difficult.  I liked Alan's explanation and I don't doubt it is real for him but not everyone experiences what he does.  So I suppose we are no further forward unless Wigginhall has better ideas  (I don't think he was really saying that he had a call from God trippy).

Your point about the unconscious opens a can of worms, as it's possible that many 'calls' and other mental eruptions, come from there.   That is, from a part of the psyche which we are not in contact with, but which can as it were speak to us.  The obvious example is dreaming, and indeed, there is a tradition of inspiration via dreams.   

Of course, there are also negative eruptions, e.g. 'God called me to kill prostitutes'.   

Creativity is another obvious area; when I was writing full-time, I would often get woken up at 3am with whole pages running through my head, and had to get up, and type them out. 

Also, romantic feelings.  So there are a whole cluster of psychic phenomena which seem unconscious, of course, much explored in depth psychology.  'God calling' might be like this.

[Alan Burns]

If God wanted to contact Len he would do well to put voices in his head, not yours, all else would be a recipe for confusion and distrust

It is amazing how many people think they know how God should do things.  God's ways may not be our ways, but I can look back on my life and see God's wonderful work.

And God may well be using my contact with Len to spread the word to many others on this forum, you included Torri