Searching for GOD...

[BeRational]

We do have much in common with animals because we share the same biological machinery.  The difference is that humans have a spiritual soul which interacts with the biological machine.  If you can demonstrate any animal having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God, I will concede that they too have a soul.

You are shifting the burden now.

YOU claim humans have a soul.

Demonstrate this as this is NOT a fact, just an assertion.

[Nearly Sane]

We do have much in common with animals because we share the same biological machinery.  The difference is that humans have a spiritual soul which interacts with the biological machine.  If you can demonstrate any animal having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God, I will concede that they too have a soul.

woo Alan pulls off the big one, the crowd love it as he does an assertion combined begging the question, and then straight into a combined begging the question and NPF, while reversing the point that had been made to him. This may win the fallacy/assertion tournament today.

[Alan Burns]

You are shifting the burden now.

YOU claim humans have a soul.

Demonstrate this as this is NOT a fact, just an assertion.

The human soul demonstrates its presence by giving us attributes of free thinking and free will which are not possible to achieve with physical materials.  This is not merely assertion, but logical deduction.

[Gordon]

If you can demonstrate any animal having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God, I will concede that they too have a soul.

We are both animals, Alan, yet you believe in God and I don't: so, do I have a 'soul' even though I have no beliefs in 'God'? If so, it seems remarkably inefficient.

[Alan Burns]

We are both animals, Alan, yet you believe in God and I don't: so, do I have a 'soul' even though I have no beliefs in 'God'? If so, it seems remarkably inefficient.

But your soul gives you the potential to believe it God.  A potential which I hope and pray will be fulfilled one day.

[Nearly Sane]

The human soul demonstrates its presence by giving us attributes of free thinking and free will which are not possible to achieve with physical materials.  This is not merely assertion, but logical deduction.

The crowd, slightly puzzled, here as Alan does a double  assertion with a triple, yes you heard me, a triple begging the question only to then finish with a simple assertion. That looked as if it was going to be great but maybe there's been some pulled neurons there.

[Gordon]

But your soul gives you the potential to believe it God.  A potential which I hope and pray will be fulfilled one day.

If it does, and if I have one (which I doubt), I can only assume that my God-given soul is the equivalent of a Friday afternoon assembled Austin Allegro circa 1975.

[Nearly Sane]

The human soul demonstrates its presence by giving us attributes of free thinking and free will which are not possible to achieve with physical materials.  This is not merely assertion, but logical deduction.

so lay out the premises and show their soundness and validity. Don't just assert which despite you denying it is precisely what the above does.

[Sebastian Toe]

We do have much in common with animals because we share the same biological machinery.  The difference is that humans have a spiritual soul which interacts with the biological machine.  If you can demonstrate any animal having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God, I will concede that they too have a soul.

Isn't it strange?
You used bang on about the difference between us and the rest of the animals, being the ability to have self awareness. If it was the soul that made us self aware.
Now you have shifted to believing or disbelieving in God,
.

Hmmm.

[Nearly Sane]

Isn't it strange?
You used bang on about the difference between us and the rest of the animals, being the ability to have self awareness. If it was the soul that made us self aware.
Now you have shifted to believing or disbelieving in God,
.

Hmmm.

There was also reading books at one stage

[torridon]

We do have much in common with animals because we share the same biological machinery.  The difference is that humans have a spiritual soul which interacts with the biological machine.  If you can demonstrate any animal having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God, I will concede that they too have a soul.

"having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God"

is this what counts as evidence for a soul ?

I think you'd need something stronger than that.  What it is evidence for is the ability to hold beliefs, the ability to cultivate conceptual models.  Noone disputes that.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

"having the ability to believe or disbelieve in God"

is this what counts as evidence for a soul ?

I think you'd need something stronger than that.  What it is evidence for is the ability to hold beliefs, the ability to cultivate conceptual models.  Noone disputes that.

Torridon. I marvel at your notion that a complex thing, once understood, magically becomes a simple thing

[Alan Burns]

Isn't it strange?
You used bang on about the difference between us and the rest of the animals, being the ability to have self awareness. If it was the soul that made us self aware.
Now you have shifted to believing or disbelieving in God,

Self awareness, free thought, free will, perception of meaning (ie reading, interpretation of language), the ability to believe or disbelieve - they all evidence for a spiritual soul which perceives, not just reacts. 

I am not shifting goal posts, just highlighting the most obvious of these attributes which is the ability to believe in God.

[Maeght]

Self awareness, free thought, free will, perception of meaning (ie reading, interpretation of language), the ability to believe or disbelieve - they all evidence for a spiritual soul which perceives, not just reacts. 

No they aren't.

[Sebastian Toe]

Self awareness, free thought, free will, perception of meaning (ie reading, interpretation of language), the ability to believe or disbelieve - they all evidence for a spiritual soul which perceives, not just reacts. 

I am not shifting goal posts, just highlighting the most obvious of these attributes which is the ability to believe in God.

And for someone who is brain damaged and can't do those things?

[Alan Burns]

And for someone who is brain damaged and can't do those things?

If the biological machine is damaged, the driver (your soul), may incur problems with control and communication.

[torridon]

Self awareness, free thought, free will, perception of meaning (ie reading, interpretation of language), the ability to believe or disbelieve - they all evidence for a spiritual soul which perceives, not just reacts. 

More accurate to say these things (self awareness etc) are characteristics of a human person.  We could all probably agree that.  But I'm sure you mean much more by soul, and these attributes do not constitute evidence for the difference.  We all have an intuition of a me inside being in control and being in receipt of experience. But you cannot even say what this soul is beyond being a person, you cannot describe its nature, its size, its location, its substance, its provenance other than in vague religious terms.  So how could such commonplace attributes count as evidence as there is nothing tangible or measurable in your definition of soul to falsify or validate ?

[Sassy]

Fear not, those who kill the body, rather fear God, who has the power to cast both body and soul into hell.

The man being a living soul someone who lives after death and has a new body when he rises.

It is the soul who decides what the body does.

[Sebastian Toe]

If the biological machine is damaged, the driver (your soul), may incur problems with control and communication.

If some are far more capable of doing stuff than others eg communicating or artistry or math - is that down to their souls or their physical brains?
In other words what is the source of the gift or talent (or lack thereof)?

[torridon]

It is the soul who decides what the body does.

That would kind of make mind redundant; making minds redundant would offend the principal of the economy of nature.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That would kind of make mind redundant; making minds redundant would offend the principal of the economy of nature.

Stop reifying the economy of nature.

[torridon]

Stop reifying the economy of nature.

It would seem a bit of a stretch to imagine that this cosmos would take 14 billion years to develop minds if souls were already there doing just the exact same thing by some sort of magic. What would be the point of having a mind ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It would seem a bit of a stretch to imagine that this cosmos would take 14 billion years to develop minds if souls were already there doing just the exact same thing by some sort of magic. What would be the point of having a mind ?

Can you show me a mind Torridon?

[torridon]

Can you show me a mind Torridon?

Can you show me a soul Vlad ?

[Sebastian Toe]

Can you show me a mind Torridon?

Just looking in your direction?  No.