Searching for GOD...

[Outrider]

Humans would appear to be the only species capable of anthropocentrism, which somewhat justifies the term.

Like bigotry, right? No?

No other species but humans are capable of investigating the nature of the universe or other species, so why not anthropocentrism?

I'd point out that presuming that what we currently know constitutes the whole of reality might be considered anthropocentrism, but this sequence has already become a little too circular for that....

O.

[Alan Burns]

The circularity of this car crash of a post is making me dizzy. I need a lie down.

Bats are the only creatures which can emit sounds of 120 dB at 200 kHz (equivalent to a smoke alarm 10cm from your ear). They dislocate the bones of the inner ear in 2-6 milliseconds to avoid deafening themselves. Why is this not more impressive than "investigating the nature of the universe"?

You seem to confuse physical capabilities with the unique perceptive capability of the human soul.

[Outrider]

You seem to confuse physical capabilities with the unique perceptive capability of the human soul.

Who said anything about souls? People investigate with their brains and senses.

O.

[floo]

I don't think the so called 'soul' exists outside of the human consciousness.

[Shaker]

You seem to confuse physical capabilities with the unique perceptive capability of the human soul.

I don't think there's any such thing. That's probably why I never mentioned it.

When it comes to perceptive capabilities, umpteen species leave H. sapiens in the dust.

[Alan Burns]

I don't think there's any such thing. That's probably why I never mentioned it.

When it comes to perceptive capabilities, umpteen species leave H. sapiens in the dust.

I was referring to the nature of human perception, not the sensitivity of our physical instruments.

Can you not see a difference between perceiving (for instance) the beauty of a sunset and reacting to the sight of food.

And human perception is capable of being aware of life, the universe and everything. 

[Gordon]

I was referring to the nature of human perception, not the sensitivity of our physical instruments.

Can you not see a difference between perceiving (for instance) the beauty of a sunset and reacting to the sight of food.

And human perception is capable of being aware of life, the universe and everything. 

Isn't biology handy!

[Sebastian Toe]

And human perception is capable of being aware of life, the universe and everything. 

And different people have different levels of perception of said universe  because.........? 

[Sebastian Toe]

........(for instance) the beauty of a sunset

A sunset is not always beautiful!

[Alan Burns]

I don't think the so called 'soul' exists outside of the human consciousness.

I totally agree with you on this, Floo, because the soul is human consciousness.

[torridon]

I totally agree with you on this, Floo, because the soul is human consciousness.

Ah, so when we are not conscious, we have no soul then

[Outrider]

Can you not see a difference between perceiving (for instance) the beauty of a sunset and reacting to the sight of food.

I can see the difference between my perception of the beauty of a sunset (I've always been left rather underwhelmed, to be honest) - or the exquisite detail of an infants uncoordinated stretching, probably my equivalent - and the sight of food, but I'm also aware that it's purely my perception set. I don't know what, say, a dog finds beautiful.

And human perception is capable of being aware of life, the universe and everything. 

And do we know that cats, say, aren't? Or dolphins? Or octopi? Or radially-symmetric avian derived hominids from a distant galaxy?

O.

[Sassy]

'Stark difference' asserted with no justification. In what way is 'human creativity' not defined by physical attributes? Stop just making assertions and attempt some form, any form of argument.

Just to take one example change here in your statement about corvids to humans and it is just as true 'But the fact that many Corvids humans work in a similar manner indicates that their ability is a physical attribute which is inherited.' But you dishonestly approach it as different.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=andrew+wommack&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Do your own homework.  His abilities in faith cannot be attributed to a physical attribute or inherited.
Truth is  Nearly Sane you limit your thinking to the ability of yourself and your own body, but the truth shows that your argument falls flat when you put people like Andrew Wommack in the picture and examine in. Any person who does what cannot be attributed to a physical attribute or inherited from human nature you avoid. So examine Andrew Wommack and tell us why people who come to him are healed and do as he does. Just as Christ said those who believed in him would do as he did, even greater things.

You appear unable to answer the things you deliberately avoid and do not want to know about.

[Sassy]

From Alan Burns Post 13874:

Take a cognitive study on bullfinches in the Barbados(kayello, 2013). 30 bullfinches were faced with something they'd never seen, a small transparent cylinder of food with a removable lid. Each bullfinch was presented with this situation, and the time measured how long it took the bird to approach the apparatus, make contact with it, flip the lid and feed on the seed. There were a variety of performances. One bullfinch took 8 minutes to suss it out, another bird went straight to it, and opened it almost immediately(7 seconds). 24 bullfinches were able to get at the food fairly quickly. Some birds were much more adept than others. In other words they showed a variable learning capacity which is a cognitive ability, just as humans, although in far more complicated  situations, show this same ability to a greater or lesser extent.

There are plenty of reports of individual birds employing unusual or novel behaviour e.g. a cowbird using a twig to pick through cowdung, herons using insects as bait, or vultures in Zimbabwe sitting on barbed wire fences next to minefields, waiting for gazelles to come along, hoping, no doubt, for a ready made meal.

The back ground of each bird would have been significant in such a study. As no background was given it means the times each bird took are immaterial. If birds caught in the wild any of them could have been fed from a feed previously.

[Nearly Sane]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=andrew+wommack&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Do your own homework.  His abilities in faith cannot be attributed to a physical attribute or inherited.
Truth is  Nearly Sane you limit your thinking to the ability of yourself and your own body, but the truth shows that your argument falls flat when you put people like Andrew Wommack in the picture and examine in. Any person who does what cannot be attributed to a physical attribute or inherited from human nature you avoid. So examine Andrew Wommack and tell us why people who come to him are healed and do as he does. Just as Christ said those who believed in him would do as he did, even greater things.

You appear unable to answer the things you deliberately avoid and do not want to know about.

An unevidenced claim which was covered previously (when you couldn't provide any external evidence other than the claim) which is a non sequitur to my post and position. Try and read what people actually write.

[Alan Burns]

Ah, so when we are not conscious, we have no soul then

It just means the window into this material world and all its properties (including time), as provided by the biological machine of the human body, is closed when we are not physically conscious.  If our conscious awareness derives from our soul's awareness of physical brain activity, then when that activity ceases, so does our awareness of that activity.

[Walter]

It just means the window into this material world and all its properties (including time), as provided by the biological machine of the human body, is closed when we are not physically conscious.  If our conscious awareness derives from our soul's awareness of physical brain activity, then when that activity ceases, so does our awareness of that activity.

so are you saying , when you die so does your soul?

[torridon]

It just means the window into this material world and all its properties (including time), as provided by the biological machine of the human body, is closed when we are not physically conscious.  If our conscious awareness derives from our soul's awareness of physical brain activity, then when that activity ceases, so does our awareness of that activity.

So, to get it's 'window' in this world, why would this soul thing look at the near impenetrable mash of physical brain activity in order to derive a sense of awareness by reverse engineering, so to speak ?  It is not easy to look at a brain and derive it's first hand subjective experience from it; we are learning to do this slowly through technology but it is not easy. If the soul can look at a brain, why does it not just look at the body and its environment directly ?

[SusanDoris]

so are you saying , when you die so does your soul?

He does tie himself up in knots with all the convoluted ideas about soul, doesn't he.I just don't know how anyone can want to live in that fog of religious beliefs; and then to want children to grow up bounded by that same fog..

[ippy]

He does tie himself up in knots with all the convoluted ideas about soul, doesn't he.I just don't know how anyone can want to live in that fog of religious beliefs; and then to want children to grow up bounded by that same fog..

Spot on Doris.

Alan demonstrates the power of early life indoctrination with most of his posts, I suppose it could be, he can't help it.

Perhaps he's a bit like those odd few people still thinking Star Trek's fiction.

Kind regards ippy.

[Outrider]

It just means the window into this material world and all its properties (including time), as provided by the biological machine of the human body, is closed when we are not physically conscious.  If our conscious awareness derives from our soul's awareness of physical brain activity, then when that activity ceases, so does our awareness of that activity.

If that were the case, we wouldn't wake up in the event of loud noises, surely? In order to have the conscious mind prompted by external stimuli to awaken, it has to have some degree of connection to the material world when unconscious.

I'm fairly certain that whilst in everyday terms we can treat states like 'sleep' and 'unconsciousness' (and, to a degree, 'comatose') as interchangeable, in purely neurological terms they are quite distinct: even within sleep there are several different neurological states in which that degree of 'connection' between the conscious and the outside world varies.

O.

[Enki]

The back ground of each bird would have been significant in such a study. As no background was given it means the times each bird took are immaterial. If birds caught in the wild any of them could have been fed from a feed previously.

In this bullfinch study, all were wild birds. It is highly unlikely that any had experienced a cylinder of food with a lid on before. Incidentally, the same experiment also tested a closely related species, the black faced grassquit. None of the 15 birds examined even got close to the cylinder. The point about these, and numerous other studies, seems to show that some bird species are smarter than others, and that individuals within a species vary as to the degree of such attributes as curiosity, boldness, trial and error learning.

[wigginhall]

He does tie himself up in knots with all the convoluted ideas about soul, doesn't he.I just don't know how anyone can want to live in that fog of religious beliefs; and then to want children to grow up bounded by that same fog..

I always think how dull AB's descriptions are.   He talks about the soul as if it was a pile of washing.   OK, I'm not expecting thrilling poetry, but once he's said 'it's the soul that produces free will/perception' and so on, that's it.   The instructions for an electric kettle are rather similar.

[Walter]

He does tie himself up in knots with all the convoluted ideas about soul, doesn't he.I just don't know how anyone can want to live in that fog of religious beliefs; and then to want children to grow up bounded by that same fog..

you are right , and I pity his young grandchild who has already been forced to go to church.

[Alan Burns]

    And human perception is capable of being aware of life, the universe and everything. 

And do we know that cats, say, aren't? Or dolphins? Or octopi? Or radially-symmetric avian derived hominids from a distant galaxy?

O.

I see no evidence of cats, dolphins or octupus showing interest in the Andromeda galaxy.

And if radially-symmetric avian derived hominids from a distant galaxy can contemplate Life, the Universe and Everything it will be by using God's gift.