Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

Yes, we know that is your belief.  But there is no evidence to back up this belief.  All you have is 'but that is how it feels'.

I would strongly dispute this and say "That is how it is"
Current scientific knowledge is just not capable of fully explaining how we are able to make conscious choices. 

[Stranger]

Current scientific knowledge is just not capable of fully explaining how we are capable of making conscious choices.

Neither are you. And it is a fallacy to draw a conclusion from ignorance.

[Alan Burns]

I have heard your "arguments" and found them to be completely lacking in any merit.

This could be for several reasons. Two extreme ones might be:

1) They are rubbish.

2) You are correct but I am not capable of understanding them.

or
3) You try to dismiss any argument for the existence of God because you do not want to find Him.

[Gordon]

I would strongly dispute this and say "That is how it is"

Which is claim to knowledge that you've yet to demonstrate any basis for: you prefer, it seems to me, to rely on fallacy after fallacy.
 

Current scientific knowledge is just not capable of fully explaining how we are able to make conscious choices.

So what - science hasn't stopped you know.

You're starting to remind me of dear old Father Jack, where instead of repeatedly shouting 'Feck, 'Drink' or 'Girls' you just exclaim 'Souls' - albeit with the same enthusiasm and subtlety.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

or
3) You try to dismiss any argument for the existence of God because you do not want to find Him.

Nope. YOU ARE WRONG. I have specifically said I want to know if God exists. That doesn't commit me to wanting to be in a relationship with him. But I can only be in relationship with someone who I think exists.

So will you finally answer my question? You think you are on a mission from god to convince me. Why have your efforts moved me, if anything, in the opposite direction?

Does this not bother you?

[wigginhall]

I would strongly dispute this and say "That is how it is"
Current scientific knowledge is just not capable of fully explaining how we are able to make conscious choices.

Oh no, surely you are aware of the shortcomings of that argument?   Of course, science hasn't fully explained consciousness, so what?  It hasn't fully explained gravity.   So we do conclude that God makes things fall down?

But to say that science isn't capable of explaining goes back to your omniscience.

[wigginhall]

I reckon that AB gets his fix of dopamine every time he tells us that his 'soul' is responsible for the brain's decision making.

https://wellcome.ac.uk/news/uk-neuroscientists-win-brain-prize

I saw that on TV and laughed.  Here we have scientists actually researching how the brain works, and how it affects our awareness.  But hang on, surely they are trumped by those advocates of soul, who even now are explaining in great detail how that interacts with brain and body and world.    Who will get the Nobel first?  It's a tight race.

[Sebastian Toe]

I would strongly dispute this and say "That is how it is"
Current scientific knowledge is just not capable of fully explaining how we are able to make conscious choices.

Lets see if you can use your free will and let your soul imagine something.
Can you imagine what you would do IF scientific knowledge was able to fully explain how we are able to make concious choices?
Go on, give it a go........

[Sassy]

However, you expect me to believe there is an omnipotent God who wants to have a relationship with me and whilst he would know what it would take to convince me he sends you with your associated arguments.

He sent Jesus Christ did you listen to him? Well, seems the lack is totally on your part.  Dives and Lazarus a good place to start.
No one is going to run after you. Christ is knocking on the door to your heart and if you won't open then only you responsible.

As I say, if anything it moves me more to a position of there is no God.

So you never moved still in your original position and stance. Maybe being a statue shows your heart of stone!

Why not pray to him to reveal the six magic numbers I have written down. A correct guess might not be proof of his existence but it would be at least something worth looking into as opposed to the broken arguments you present.

Why not ask him yourself?  That is right you don't believe so why do you think you won't receive?

So, again, any chance of an answer to the questions I ACTAULLY asked?

Well it was more of a running commentary about yourself. Maybe if your stance is " I don't believe' an open mind " I am ready to learn" could be a good place to start.

[Sassy]

Nope. YOU ARE WRONG. I have specifically said I want to know if God exists. That doesn't commit me to wanting to be in a relationship with him. But I can only be in relationship with someone who I think exists.

So will you finally answer my question? You think you are on a mission from god to convince me. Why have your efforts moved me, if anything, in the opposite direction?

Does this not bother you?

Your own salvation is your own affair.  If you don't believe God or Jesus Christ then why would you believe Alan?
Maybe you have not aptitude for belief.  Hence you cannot have something you don't want.

[Alan Burns]

Nope. YOU ARE WRONG. I have specifically said I want to know if God exists. That doesn't commit me to wanting to be in a relationship with him. But I can only be in relationship with someone who I think exists.

So will you finally answer my question? You think you are on a mission from god to convince me. Why have your efforts moved me, if anything, in the opposite direction?

Does this not bother you?

Of course it bothers me that you have not found God yet, so I hope and pray that you will one day.

[Nearly Sane]

Of course it bothers me that you have not found God yet, so I hope and pray that you will one day.

your answer quotemines the question. Why did you do that? Are you being deliberately dishonest here?

[Alan Burns]

Lets see if you can use your free will and let your soul imagine something.
Can you imagine what you would do IF scientific knowledge was able to fully explain how we are able to make concious choices?
Go on, give it a go........

The problem is that if science did explain how we make conscious choices, it would not be a real choice but an inevitable consequence to previous events.  So how could I possibly choose to give it a go if science will not allow me a free choice???

[Nearly Sane]

The problem is that if science did explain how we make conscious choices, it would not be a real choice but an inevitable consequence to previous events.  So how could I possibly choose to give it a go if science will not allow me a free choice???

this is another misrepresentation of a question. Seems like a habit. Is lying something you casually indulge in?

[Alan Burns]

I saw that on TV and laughed.  Here we have scientists actually researching how the brain works, and how it affects our awareness.  But hang on, surely they are trumped by those advocates of soul, who even now are explaining in great detail how that interacts with brain and body and world.    Who will get the Nobel first?  It's a tight race.

Brain activity certainly affects our awareness, but it does not define it.  Pixels on a TV screen affect the image, but they do not perceive it.

[Alan Burns]

this is another misrepresentation of a question. Seems like a habit. Is lying something you casually indulge in?

I was just illustrating the silliness of the question.

[Nearly Sane]

Brain activity certainly affects our awareness, but it does not define it.  Pixels on a TV screen affect the image, but they do not perceive it.

and another misrepresentation.

[Nearly Sane]

I was just illustrating the silliness of the question.

And now lying about lying

[Gordon]

Brain activity certainly affects our awareness, but it does not define it.  Pixels on a TV screen affect the image, but they do not perceive it.

It might have escaped your notice that brains and TVs aren't the same kind of thing: since I find it difficult to believe that you haven't noticed this then you are fooling nobody other than the chronically gullible.

[Sebastian Toe]

The problem is that if science did explain how we make conscious choices, it would not be a real choice but an inevitable consequence to previous events.  So how could I possibly choose to give it a go if science will not allow me a free choice???

Nice dodge.
Can you use your imagination as requested or not?

[torridon]

I would strongly dispute this and say "That is how it is"

Yes we know that is what you would say,  but there is no justification for it.  Merely adding 'Current scientific knowledge is just not capable of fully explaining blad blah blah' is not grounds or justification; it is just an excuse for your failure to learn from new findings.  Science will never fully explain everything so does that justify us in ignoring what the evidence suggests ? Elevating your personal  beliefs above the findings of the wider scientific community shows pride and arrogance where there could be humility, openness, integrity and a willingness to learn from others.

[Alan Burns]

Nice dodge.
Can you use your imagination as requested or not?

But if I did choose to use my imagination as requested, that would be proof that I am able to control what I imagine.  So where would this control emanate from?

[Gordon]

But if I did choose to use my imagination as requested, that would be proof that I am able to control what I imagine.  So where would this control emanate from?

Alan

This might come as a shock but for practical purposes you can control what you imagine: if I ask you to imagine walking across a field on a sunny summer afternoon I'm certain you (e.g. the biology comprising 'you') can do it.

All you are being asked to do is consider your response in a thought experiment where science developed a provisional naturalistic explanation for consciousness. Since your faith seems so dependent on your assumptions regarding the role of the divine in consciousness then such an explanation would surely challenge your current views - so how would you respond?

[Stranger]

But if I did choose to use my imagination as requested, that would be proof that I am able to control what I imagine.  So where would this control emanate from?

According all the evidence we have: your brain.

Nobody is disputing that we can think about stuff and act on it. We all make choices. We all experience "free will". Nobody knows exactly how it all works but all the evidence suggests that it is a function of the brain.

Your argument basically amounts to: "wow, this is difficult to understand and science hasn't fully explained it yet so..... it must be magic!" You haven't offered anything concrete at all - your 'soul' thingy is just pixie dust that magically does all the hard stuff that you can't understand. It doesn't explain anything at all.

[Nearly Sane]

Alan

This might come as a shock but for practical purposes you can control what you imagine: if I ask you to imagine walking across a field on a sunny summer afternoon I'm certain you (e.g. the biology comprising 'you') can do it.

All you are being asked to do is consider your response in a thought experiment where science developed a provisional naturalistic explanation for consciousness. Since your faith seems so dependent on your assumptions regarding the role of the divine in consciousness then such an explanation would surely challenge your current views - so how would you respond?

Just a thought triggered by this on control - don't imagine a pink elephant.