Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3860725 times)

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18825 on: June 28, 2017, 03:25:21 PM »
I do not need to prop up the blindingly obvious truth that our conscious self awareness is not an accidental unintended by product of unguided molecular activity from the debris of an exploded star.  Just trying to share the truth of our God given spiritual nature.

Non sequitur in there. How we have missed your fallacies  ;)  Conscious self awareness is a phenomenon of nature, it would appear to have evolved over hundreds of millions of years.  If you want to pop a God on top of that process you'd need to justify it, not just assert it.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18826 on: June 28, 2017, 03:28:07 PM »
Non sequitur in there. How we have missed your fallacies.
In my case, with massive relief.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18827 on: June 28, 2017, 03:31:48 PM »
In my case, with massive relief.

oh, I don't know, it reminds me of those old seaside amusement arcade games where something pops up and you have to hit them back down with a hammer again.  Alans assertion and fallacy generators are a bit like that, he keeps them coming a pace and we keep knocking them back down.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18828 on: June 28, 2017, 03:32:42 PM »
For 'natural instinctive awareness', I would read 'evolved cognitive bias'. Awareness derives from perception, perception derives from sensory information capture, external sensory information would register on suitable inanimate and unbiased detectors.

Glad you enjoyed your holiday, welcome back.
But in your scenario, there is no physical definition of what it is that captures or detects the sensory information you describe.  The "unbiased detector" you mention still has to be perceived by conscious human awareness, otherwise the information is lost.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18829 on: June 28, 2017, 03:33:03 PM »
Just to note that it took me less than 15 seconds to find the link below of mass times at the cathedral in Malaga on 'festivos'.



http://www.misas.org/p/santa-iglesia-catedral-basilica-malaga

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18830 on: June 28, 2017, 03:33:47 PM »
oh, I don't know, it reminds me of those old seaside amusement arcade games where something pops up and you have to hit them back down with a hammer again.  Alans assertion and fallacy generators are a bit like that, he keeps them coming a pace and we keep knocking them back down.
But he doesn't even realise that he's being shot down. The flow of - well, it's not even information, it's just white noise - is one way only: everything out, absolutely nothing in.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18831 on: June 28, 2017, 04:01:25 PM »
I do wonder if some religious people, who give it large about their faith, are trying to convince themselves as well as others as to its merits.
Spot on, Floo!! :)
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floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18832 on: June 28, 2017, 04:01:51 PM »
you are the evidence, Floo.

Ehhhhhhhhhhh?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18833 on: June 28, 2017, 04:07:29 PM »
Spot on, Floo!! :)
Do you think the same of atheists? Is Richard Dawkins really a closet Christian?

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18834 on: June 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM »
Do you think the same of atheists? Is Richard Dawkins really a closet Christian?

I suppose it is possible Dawkins might have some hidden disquiet about his rampant atheism, as it cannot be proved beyond all doubt that no god exists anywhere.

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18835 on: June 28, 2017, 04:35:16 PM »
The trouble is, everyone can be accused of denying the opposite to what they state.    The atheist is denying the obvious reality of God (as AB might say), the Christian is suppressing his own doubts, and so on.    I suppose it would make for an interesting discussion, if we take the opposite of everybody's view. 
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18836 on: June 28, 2017, 04:41:41 PM »
I want there to be no god, particularly the one featured in the Bible, but I have moments of disquiet when I have to face up to the remote possibility, however far fetched, it could all be true.  :o

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18837 on: June 28, 2017, 04:44:56 PM »
The thing that struck me recently is that I find most of it uninteresting.   I don't care if it's true or not really.   There is no purchase on it for me.   It's like worrying about Crewe Alexandra.   Aagh, I am one of the damned!
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18838 on: June 28, 2017, 05:01:58 PM »
It is not surprising that many people in our increasingly secular world have their natural instinctive awareness of God quashed by media and peer pressure.

On our recent cruising holiday (our first cruise!) we were in Malaga on the feast of Corpus Christi.  We wanted to attend a church service, so I tried to look up service times at the big cathedral in Malaga.  All the internet sights I tried said the cathedral was closed.  The service desk on our cruise ship also said the cathedral was closed that day.  On further interrogation on the internet I found on a Q and A forum that there were five services taking place that day, all open to the public.  Apparently the tourist industry no longer recognise that cathedrals are still used as places of worship!

So we enjoyed attending a packed cathedral celebrating the great feast of Corpus Christi.
Tripadvisor. A tourist internet site. Did you try that? It was the second hit on Google when i searched for Malaga cathedral mass times!!!
Took me less than two minutes.

By the way. The first hit  was thecatholictravelguide. It didn't have the mass times?!?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18839 on: June 28, 2017, 05:08:24 PM »
It's like worrying about Crewe Alexandra.   Aagh, I am one of the damned!
Such blasphemy warrants an eternity in the fires of Hull.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18840 on: June 28, 2017, 05:10:12 PM »
Tripadvisor. A tourist internet site. Did you try that? It was the second hit on Google when i searched for Malaga cathedral mass times!!!
Took me less than two minutes.

By the way. The first hit  was thecatholictravelguide. It didn't have the mass times?!?
Two minutes? How slow!! Or for those of us arguing time is a fiction. What lack of change!

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18841 on: June 28, 2017, 05:11:21 PM »
But in your scenario, there is no physical definition of what it is that captures or detects the sensory information you describe.

Try biology, Alan (such as the bit between your ears).

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18842 on: June 28, 2017, 05:12:08 PM »
Such blasphemy warrants an eternity in the fires of Hull.
That's just Grimsby

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18843 on: June 28, 2017, 05:19:44 PM »
Just to note that it took me less than 15 seconds to find the link below of mass times at the cathedral in Malaga on 'festivos'.



http://www.misas.org/p/santa-iglesia-catedral-basilica-malaga
I found the same link referenced in a Q&A forum as an answer to someone else asking for Mass times, but it was only after searching through lots of English language web sites.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18844 on: June 28, 2017, 05:25:23 PM »
Try biology, Alan (such as the bit between your ears).
Biology comprises physical reactions of material particles, but there is no definition of how these reactions get perceived into a single entity of awareness.

I have been told many times on this forum that awareness is generated by complex neurological network activity in the brain, but complexity does not define perception - it is just lots of discrete reactions.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 05:47:40 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18845 on: June 28, 2017, 05:31:20 PM »
Biology comprises physical reactions of material particles, but no definition of how these reactions get perceived into a single entity of awareness.

Complexity does not define perception.
'Single entity' and AB goes full on into the begging the question fallacy. It is his bitch, his go to fallacy. He chooses it, and he chews it.  He licks and he sucks it. It begs, he pops the question. Harder it asks, he is like, so hard. 

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18846 on: June 28, 2017, 05:37:58 PM »
'Single entity' and AB goes full on into the begging the question fallacy. It is his bitch, his go to fallacy. He chooses it, and he chews it.  He licks and he sucks it. It begs, he pops the question. Harder it asks, he is like, so hard.
It is amazing what my uncontrollable, naturally driven, deterministic brain cell activity can generate.  ::)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 05:40:48 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18847 on: June 28, 2017, 05:41:27 PM »
It is amazing what my uncontrollable, naturally driven, deterministic brain cell activity can generate.  ::)

You said it! ;D

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18848 on: June 28, 2017, 05:42:29 PM »
It is amazing what my uncontrollable, naturally driven, deterministic brain cell activity can generate.
And woo, he throws off the tired begging the question, and goes for him, the unobtainable, he looks unbelievably good, too good. It is so so so hard to believe how gorgeous that big old incredulity fallacy is. He is a throbbing, pulsating, veiny fallacy of salty goodness. No wonder Alan clings  to that!

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #18849 on: June 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PM »
And woo, he throws off the tired begging the question, and goes for him, the unobtainable, he looks unbelievably good, too good. It is so so so hard to believe how gorgeous that big old incredulity fallacy is. He is a throbbing, pulsating, veiny fallacy of salty goodness. No wonder Alan clings  to that!
I do not cling to anything - I just adhere to the truth.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton