Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

You are getting two things mixed up.
I was told the healing of the cleft palate occurred on a bus journey.

... but was, you said, subsequently "verified" in a hospital.

Which hospital?

The healing of the aneurysm took place in Blackpool Victoria hospital.

When did this alleged event supposedly take place?

[floo]

... but was, you said, subsequently "verified" in a hospital.

Which hospital?
When did this alleged event supposedly take place?

If something as remarkable as those two events actually took place, surely the media would have made a huge song and dance about it?

[Alan Burns]

... but was, you said, subsequently "verified" in a hospital.

Which hospital?

Sorry I do not know

    The healing of the aneurysm took place in Blackpool Victoria hospital.

When did this alleged event supposedly take place?

July 1992

[Rhiannon]

Read the link, Alan.

[Nearly Sane]

How do you know that science will not eventually be able to discover how the universe came about, sometime in the distant future?

I don't, but in terms of science it assumes naturalist causes. Nothing wrong with that but in the absence of a 'supernaturalistic' methodology, such claims are unfalsifiable in scientific terms.

[Shaker]

If something as remarkable as those two events actually took place, surely the media would have made a huge song and dance about it?

Indeed.

Given that Alan sees his presence here as a mission to convert, think of the evangelising opportunities that an actual healing would present.

And yet the details are always very ... vague.

[Shaker]

The healing of the aneurysm took place in Blackpool Victoria hospital ... July 1992

Almost exactly a quarter of a century ago, give or take a few weeks.

Nevertheless, we have an approximate time and a place so we appear to be getting somewhere.

Which medical professionals attested to this purported healing?

[Shaker]

Sorry I do not know

OK, what was the name of the child allegedly healed?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

You are getting two things mixed up.
I was told the healing of the cleft palate occurred on a bus journey. 

The healing of the aneurysm took place in Blackpool Victoria hospital.

Not as much as you're mixing up "a surprising medical outcome" with "a miracle happened".

How would you propose to construct a path from the former to the latter, or do you intend to dispense with that in favour of just an assertion of your personal incredulity?

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

Now that is a crap hypothetical. Science is methodologically naturalistic, so it isn't, doesn't and by definition cannot cover this.

And nor, even if it could, could it deal with the risk of an unknown unknown spoiling the party. It's a point in logic as much as it is one of method.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

Almost exactly a quarter of a century ago, give or take a few weeks.

Nevertheless, we have an approximate time and a place so we appear to be getting somewhere.

Which medical professionals attested to this purported healing?

Not really. Even if you had chapter and verse on the episode all it would tell you would be that a surprising medical outcome occurred.

The "miracle" bit is all of AB's making. 

[Shaker]

True, that.

[Gordon]

You are getting two things mixed up.
I was told the healing of the cleft palate occurred on a bus journey.

Do you believe everything your are told? 

[floo]

Some years ago we were told by a 'born again' relative that in Africa some of the dead were being brought back to life. When we questioned that statement, asking why the media weren't reporting such remarkable events, he told us that it was being kept a secret from them. You can imagine what our response was to that nonsense!

[Enki]

You are getting two things mixed up.
I was told the healing of the cleft palate occurred on a bus journey. 

The healing of the aneurysm took place in Blackpool Victoria hospital.

Yes, you're right. I am at fault for not looking accurately at the posts that went before.

[Alan Burns]

Almost exactly a quarter of a century ago, give or take a few weeks.

Nevertheless, we have an approximate time and a place so we appear to be getting somewhere.

Which medical professionals attested to this purported healing?

I can quote what the ward sister said when we arrived:

You're just in time.
He only has a short time left.
His liver and kidneys are failing.
His pulse is very weak.
He will not regain consciousness.  If he does it will be a miracle.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I can quote what the ward sister said when we arrived:

You're just in time.
He only has a short time left.
His liver and kidneys are failing.
His pulse is very weak.
He will not regain consciousness.  If he does it will be a miracle.

You took exact contemporaneous notes? Wow!

Anyways, so you think this “quote” to be evidence that the Ward Sister both knew every possible natural cure there was (and ever could be) so she could eliminate all those possibilities, and that she was using the term “miracle” in the religious sense rather than in the colloquial sense people use all the time?

Really?

Fair enough. Can I interest you then in this bridge I have for sale…?

[Alan Burns]

Do you believe everything your are told?

If it was just a casual conversation between two people, I would be more sceptical.
But someone who has the courage to witness in front of an audience of two thousand must have more credibility.

[floo]

If it was just a casual conversation between two people, I would be more sceptical.
But someone who has the courage to witness in front of an audience of two thousand must have more credibility.

Why?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

If it was just a casual conversation between two people, I would be more sceptical.

The casualness or otherwise of a conversation tells you nothing whatever about whether its content is true. Whether I mention to you in passing that I have a pet dragon or spend several hours doing it (complete with Powerpoint presentation and a marching band playing “Puff the Magic Dragon”) makes no difference.   

But someone who has the courage to witness in front of an audience of two thousand must have more credibility.

That’s yet another non sequitur. The "courage" of someone telling a story (presumably to an audience of fellow religionists) tells you nothing whatever about whether the causal explanation he happens to find most persuasive is in fact the correct one. There is in other words no “must” about it.

What would add to the credibility though would be some cogent reasoning to take him from “a medically surprising outcome” to “miracle”.

Was there any? 

[Shaker]

If it was just a casual conversation between two people, I would be more sceptical.
But someone who has the courage to witness in front of an audience of two thousand must have more credibility.

Why would that be?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

Why would that be?

There is no “why” – it was just yet another non sequitur.

If anything by the way I’d have thought a rationalist presenting to an audience of religionists and explaining why their credulity is a very poor guide to truths would take more courage, but there you go. 

[Gordon]

If it was just a casual conversation between two people, I would be more sceptical.
But someone who has the courage to witness in front of an audience of two thousand must have more credibility.

So, what steps did you take to exclude the risks that this person was mistaken or telling lies?

[Rhiannon]

Why would that be?

It's not like it's how they earn a living or anything.

Oh hang on...

[torridon]

So, what steps did you take to exclude the risks that this person was mistaken or telling lies?

Now don't be silly Gordon, that would imply impartiality, balance and integrity