Searching for GOD...

[Enki]

Excuse me, I have to go and be sick.

My thoughts exactly.

[Nearly Sane]

Bet you had a little beatific smile in your lips when you posted that.

I had pictured Alan as having just stuck 2 fingers up his arse, wafted them gently in front of his olfactory organ, said 'Oh, what a good boy am I?' and then had a beatific smile on his lips

[Gordon]

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.
But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

Don't believe everything you read, Alan. That it never seems to be God's fault: which is the apologists doctrine when faced with the so-called 'problem of evil' is perhaps one of the more offensive aspects of the Christian faith.

[Nearly Sane]

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.
But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

So if I don't clap my hands your god dies?

[Nearly Sane]

Surely the thought of eternal rest and perpetual light should make us all feel good?

Is this like taking a shed load of tamezepam at the North Pole in summer?

[Sebastian Toe]

As I said previously, I believe God answers all sincere prayers made in faith.

Positively?
Could you make a sincere prayer made in faith to get him to prevent any more deaths in the Syrian conflict perhaps?
Maybe do it the next time you are about to ask him where you dropped your pen
or any such similar matter that comes up?
Something along the lines of
"I know that you will answer my deeply faithful and earnest prayer to let me come upon my lost biro. However if you could just transfer that positive outcome over to the Middle East peace process with immediate effect then that would be dandy"
No?

[floo]

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.
But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

How very convenient!

[wigginhall]

It's infinitely elastic - God has infinite power, but hang on, no he doesn't.   He is all powerful, but on the other hand, he's a midget.  And he answers all prayers, but of course,  usually with a no.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.
But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

So the god you choose to worship turns out to be not omnipotent after all then.

Fair enough. What else can't he do?

[Shaker]

We can't presume to know how God answers prayers

Though I notice that you don't balk at presuming that they are answered.

... we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.

Negative proof fallacy, essentially.

[Shaker]

It's infinitely elastic - God has infinite power, but hang on, no he doesn't.   He is all powerful, but on the other hand, he's a midget.

It's Shaker's patented Incredible Shrinking God™.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

AB,

So the god you choose to worship turns out to be not omnipotent after all then.

Fair enough. What else can't he do?

Why don't you ask him yourself?

[Shaker]

Why don't you ask him yourself?

He probably doesn't buy a word of it, I would guess.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:...

Incidentally Alan, have you any sense at all of how utterly morally depraved this is and, by association, you are?

Essentially you're trying to argue that unless the Grenfell victims first bought the entry ticket of "faith", then they were never even potentially in the miracle lottery at all.

No matter that you have no idea which shared your faith and which didn't.

No matter that there's no evidence of differential outcomes for the victims depending on which faith they happened to have.

No matter that a supposedly just god would be acting like the worst type of banana republic potentate by demanding his tithe before doing the right thing.

No matter any of that - god's in his heaven, all's right with the world and the victims had no-one to blame but themselves eh?

You'll have no idea why, but you ought to be fucking ashamed or yourself for this filth.
 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

Why don't you ask him yourself?

For the same reason that you can't ask the leprechauns where they stash the pots of gold in between rainbows.

[Shaker]

Fallacy Boy,

For the same reason that you can't ask the leprechauns where they stash the pots of gold in between rainbows.

To save Vlad's fingers: "Category f**k!"

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

To save Vlad's fingers: "Category f**k!"

Blimey - old Fallacy Boy now has his mistakes posted by proxy?

Saves time I suppose.

[Shaker]

Well he was going to do it and I'm pottering about making supper so I thought I might as well.

[wigginhall]

How very Stalinist of you.

[Shaker]

You're a bad lot 

[Shaker]

Don't believe everything you read, Alan.

I think we're some way past that ...

[Shaker]

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.

Me? No. But the Apostle's Creed does - or as the Credo of the Mass has it, Patrem omnipotentem and what have you. Omnipotentem is "omnipotent", or "all-powerful". That's limitless power, isn't it? Or isn't it?

But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

So something only works not on the basis of empirical results but on the basis that you have a prior and pre-existing belief that it works.

Hm.

For some of us, Alan, that's the indisputable hallmark of every snake oil salesman, crook, crim, charlatan and dodgy con artist there's ever been since for ever.

Why isn't it like science, which (ceteris paribus) works for everybody equally regardless of whether you believe it or not?

It's the placebo effect, actually.

I'll say one thing for your book - it's right in one specific instance: you're achieving absolutely nothing whatever by being here and posting here expecting to change people's minds with assertion and logical fallacies. I guess it must be all that unbelief .. aka the work of this Devil of yours

[Alan Burns]

AB,

Incidentally Alan, have you any sense at all of how utterly morally depraved this is and, by association, you are? .......

It is sad that you do not realise where your sense of morality derives from. 

[Rhiannon]

It is sad that you do not realise where your sense of morality derives from.

Your posts are increasingly disgusting.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

It is sad that you do not realise where your sense of morality derives from.

And that's called the fallacy of reification.

Here's a challenge for you: why don't you try to post an argument that doesn't contain one or ore logical fallacies?

You tell us that you have logic on your side, only you don't have the time to tell us what it so instead you post only illogic. This makes no sense: just use the same time you'd normally use to post another broken argument to post instead a cogent one.

After all, if you could do that you'd lose nothing and you might even gain something - ie, not having your assertions quite rightly dismissed out of hand.

OK, over to you then...