Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rhi,

Your posts are increasingly disgusting.

And what's actually "sad" is that he has no idea why.

[Shaker]

It is sad that you do not realise where your sense of morality derives from.

My readings of evolutionary biology, primatology, anthropology, sociology and psychology leave me more than adequately satisfied as to the ultimate source of morality in the human animal. It's an amazing, fascinating, deeply compelling, wondrous and above all true thing to take on board.

Why, what's your alternative version?

[Rhiannon]

Rhi,

And what's actually "sad" is that he has no idea why.

Sad or frightening? Maybe both.

[Gordon]

It is sad that you do not realise where your sense of morality derives from.

It derives from applied biology, Alan: no surprise there since everything you think is just applied biology.

Your faith has left you utterly clueless, which is a shame.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Gordon,

It derives from applied biology, Alan: no surprise there since everything you think is just applied biology.

Your faith has left you utterly clueless, which is a shame.

It's a double whammy: his utter cluelessness is inextricably linked to the conviction that he's categorically right nonetheless, despite having only very bad arguments for support. It's that combination of ignorance with certainty that's the frightening bit.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

My readings of evolutionary biology, primatology, anthropology, sociology and psychology leave me more than adequately satisfied as to the ultimate source of morality in the human animal.

Shifting the goal posts from morality to source of morality?

A hefty dose of the naturalistic fallacy I'm afraid.

[Shaker]

Shifting the goal posts from morality to source of morality?

A hefty dose of the naturalistic fallacy I'm afraid.

Oh dear

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

Shifting the goal posts from morality to source of morality?

A hefty dose of the naturalistic fallacy I'm afraid.

Try reading what AB said to see where you've gone wrong again here - he was the one who introduced the issue of source.

And that's not what "naturalistic fallacy" entails either by the way.

Apart from that though...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Oh dear

Sorry........ I meant appeal to nature.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

Sorry........ I meant appeal to nature.

Still wrong though.

Care to go for the hat trick of wrongness?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

PS Where's Gordon's apology by the way - it's been hours now since you doctored his quote and then mis-ascribed it to him. Surely it'd take you only a minute or two to do the decent thing wouldn't it?

Wouldn't it?

[Enki]

It is sad that you do not realise where your sense of morality derives from.

Actually I see my morality as basically a human construct which has qualities of compassion, empathy and altruism as its main elements. All these are needed for society to function, and they have been shaped in a melting pot of culture, nurture and rationality. These are evolutionary traits, many of which can be seen to some degree in many animal species, especially social ones.

Unfortunately I suggest that your morality has been badly distorted by your overwhelming reliance and faith in some of the dogmas and interpretations of your brand of Christianity. I know that you will not agree, but your recent utterances seem to bear witness to that statement. I can only tell you how I feel, Alan, and I would be ashamed to say some of the things that you have said in some of your recent posts.

[Alan Burns]

Actually I see my morality as basically a human construct which has qualities of compassion, empathy and altruism as its main elements. All these are needed for society to function, and they have been shaped in a melting pot of culture, nurture and rationality. These are evolutionary traits, many of which can be seen to some degree in many animal species, especially social ones.

Unfortunately I suggest that your morality has been badly distorted by your overwhelming reliance and faith in some of the dogmas and interpretations of your brand of Christianity. I know that you will not agree, but your recent utterances seem to bear witness to that statement. I can only tell you how I feel, Alan, and I would be ashamed to say some of the things that you have said in some of your recent posts.

I have said nothing which is contrary to the teachings of the New Testament, and can you not ponder what type of morality we would have inherited without our Christian heritage?

[Nearly Sane]

I have said nothing which is contrary to the teachings of the New Testament, and can you not ponder what type of morality we would have inherited without our Christian heritage?

one where covering up sexually assaulting children wasn't part of the organisation you support, one might hope.

[Rhiannon]

one where covering up sexually assaulting children wasn't part of the organisation you support, one might hope.

One that doesn't like gay correction facilities?

[Sebastian Toe]

our Christian heritage?

Like burning "witches" or torturing non adherants maybe?
You can keep it.

[torridon]

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.
But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

You're only digging your hole deeper here.  As if your conceptions of god weren't already sufficiently irrational we now have an omnipotent god who isn't actually omnipotent at all, but is dependent on his followers.  One wonders how he got by before humans evolved, never mind the ones with the correct beliefs.  So God did not intervene to save people from Grenfell Tower because of their unbelief, maybe some of them were atheists, maybe some were people of faith but faith of the wrong flavour. You paint a picture of a ghastly god, a miserable incompetent wretch that would make the local town councillors seem paragons of virtue by comparison.

[Shaker]

I have said nothing which is contrary to the teachings of the New Testament

That's not necessarily a recommendation.

and can you not ponder what type of morality we would have inherited without our Christian heritage?

We don't have to 'ponder' - there's abundant evidence. The Code of Hammurabi (first presumption of innocence in any legal system), the non-violence of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, the serenity of Taoism were all around long before Christianity.

"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it." - Christopher Hitchens

[floo]

You're only digging your hole deeper here.  As if your conceptions of god weren't already sufficiently irrational we now have an omnipotent god who isn't actually omnipotent at all, but is dependent on his followers.  One wonders how he got by before humans evolved, never mind the ones with the correct beliefs.  So God did not intervene to save people from Grenfell Tower because of their unbelief, maybe some of them were atheists, maybe some were people of faith but faith of the wrong flavour. You paint a picture of a ghastly god, a miserable incompetent wretch that would make the local town councillors seem paragons of virtue by comparison.

Poor AB doesn't do his version of god any favours!

[Alan Burns]

Actually I see my morality as basically a human construct which has qualities of compassion, empathy and altruism as its main elements. All these are needed for society to function, and they have been shaped in a melting pot of culture, nurture and rationality. These are evolutionary traits, many of which can be seen to some degree in many animal species, especially social ones.

Unfortunately I suggest that your morality has been badly distorted by your overwhelming reliance and faith in some of the dogmas and interpretations of your brand of Christianity. I know that you will not agree, but your recent utterances seem to bear witness to that statement. I can only tell you how I feel, Alan, and I would be ashamed to say some of the things that you have said in some of your recent posts.

Prior to the onset of Christianity, the most advanced civilization in the western world had fellow human beings being torn apart in the arena of the coliseum for public entertainment.  Not sure how this fits in with the evolutionary traits of moral values.  Thankfully, Christian teaching promotes the virtues of love and compassion for our fellow human beings.

[Shaker]

Prior to the onset of Christianity, the most advanced civilization in the world

Was Chinese.

had fellow human beings being torn apart in the arena of the coliseum for public entertainment. Not sure how this fits in with the evolutionary traits of moral values. Thankfully, Christian teaching promotes the virtues of love and compassion for our fellow human beings.

... including tying some of them to a big stick and setting them on fire for not believing the right things.

And as I said before: Buddhism and Jainism got there first, love and compassion-wise.

[Gordon]

I have said nothing which is contrary to the teachings of the New Testament, and can you not ponder what type of morality we would have inherited without our Christian heritage?

I suspect you're exaggerating the relevance of the NT in respect of 'teaching': a bunch of anecdotes of uncertain provenance containing some twee analogies, deepities and unbelievable miracle claims (in the absence of a method to assess these claims) does not provide a sufficient framework within which to consider morality.

Don't despair though, since Aristotle did some sterling work on morality centuries before the NT, and which remains relevant today, and there is much else of substance under the moral philosophy banner. 

[Shaker]

Don't despair though, since Aristotle did some sterling work on morality centuries before the NT, and which remains relevant today, and there is much else of substance under the moral philosophy banner.

Ah yes, the Knickersknackersknockers Ethics. Worth a read Alan.

[Gordon]

Prior to the onset of Christianity, the most advanced civilization in the world had fellow human beings being torn apart in the arena of the coliseum for public entertainment.  Not sure how this fits in with the evolutionary traits of moral values.  Thankfully, Christian teaching promotes the virtues of love and compassion for our fellow human beings.

I think, Alan, you need to remove your rose-tinted theoglasses in order to see Christianity without them obstructing your view.

[Rhiannon]

... including tying some of them to a big stick and setting them on fire for not believing the right things.

Weird how Christians are oblivious to their own practice of human sacrifice. Wasn't that long ago either. Although to be fair witches were usually hung, at least in England. It was other Christians that were burned.