Searching for GOD...

[Rhiannon]

I have said it is evil and I suggested that evil is not to be considered as in God's plan. However ,as I said and as you seem to have wilfully ignored, God works round the contingencies evil creates. I don't know if I could call that a plan in the way I think you mean it.

It is not wise to give yes/ no answers to ignorant questions

So if witchcraft is evil, is Hinduism? What about Buddhism? Or is it just paganism and witchcraft?

[Shaker]

I have said it is evil and I suggested that evil is not to be considered as in God's plan. However ,as I said and as you seem to have wilfully ignored, God works round the contingencies evil creates.

Can't this god character forestall the evil before it occurs?

Is that within its alleged capabilities or not?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I would love you to try to explain the "logic" behind that statement 
And that as well 

Be Rational committed the fallacy of modernity.

The mechanics is that the best morality is the most contemporary. But the morality of any time is always the most contemporary, so the statement is self defeating.

[Shaker]

Be Rational committed the fallacy of modernity.

The mechanics is that the best morality is the most contemporary. But the morality of any time is always the most contemporary, so the statement is self defeating.

I was referring to this car crash: "If you think that Jesus is arrogant because of his claims to divinity. That is a monotheistic view. Congratulations, part of you is theist."

[Nearly Sane]

History curriculums are chosen.

If you think that Jesus is arrogant because of his claims to divinity. That is a monotheistic view. Congratulations, part of you is theist.

If you think morality moves on then morality has no intrinsic meaning or value since it is something that is changing. If you think that the more contemporary a morality is that is self defeating since Jesus morals were contemporary then.

So if I think that to be a unicorn something would need a horn, that means I believe in unicorns!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So if witchcraft is evil, is Hinduism? What about Buddhism? Or is it just paganism and witchcraft?

Insofar and insomuch as any world view is antichrist.

[BeRational]

Be Rational committed the fallacy of modernity.

The mechanics is that the best morality is the most contemporary. But the morality of any time is always the most contemporary, so the statement is self defeating.

Do you think the morality of slavery as advocated in the bible is good?

If not, on what basis do you think it is morally bad?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So if witchcraft is evil, is Hinduism? What about Buddhism? Or is it just paganism and witchcraft?

In terms of Spud the witchcraft practice was considered seditious and dangerous to the Old Testament nation of Israel. They saw sedition as fatal to that nation. That's why I mentioned the Rosenbergs and Tudor policy.

Killing witches is an evil within a world of evils.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you think the morality of slavery as advocated in the bible is good?

I think the slavery in the bible is an evil in a world of greater or lesser evils.
I don't agree that the NT advocates slavery though, What did you have in mind?

[Shaker]

Ephesians 6:5-8;

Colossians 3:22-24;

1Timothy 6:1-2;

1Peter 2:18;

Titus 2:9-10, possibly.

[BeRational]

I think the slavery in the bible is an evil in a world of greater or lesser evils.
I don't agree that the NT advocates slavery though, What did you have in mind?

Did Jesus say to OT was invalid?

Did the morality of god change?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ephesians 6:5-8;

Colossians 3:22-24;

1Timothy 6:1-2;

1Peter 2:18;

Titus 2:9-10, possibly.

No advocacy of slavery here. In fact the NT attitude towards slavery is rather subversive.
What is clear from these passages is that turning Christianity into a slave revolt would be counter to the mission of the church part of which is under the recognised ''Yolk of slavery''. That move would be the ultimate in stupid gesture politics and was eschewed by Christianity in a move like eschewing zealot aims in Israel.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Did Jesus say to OT was invalid?

No but I wonder if he would say that your reading of it was.

[Shaker]

No advocacy of slavery here.

Yes there is - the advocacy is of slaves being obedient toward those who 'own' them.

Since to me slavery is immoral - your mileage may vary - telling people to accept the status quo is immoral.

As Frederick Douglass put it, I prayed for deliverance for years but nothing actually happened until I prayed with my legs.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes there is - the advocacy is of slaves being obedient toward those who 'own' them.

Since to me slavery is immoral - your mileage may vary - telling people to accept the status quo is immoral.

As Frederick Douglass put it, I prayed for deliverance for years but nothing actually happened until I prayed with my legs.

As I said these things are evil in a world of evils.

Turning Christianity into another slave revolt would have been the greater evil. I presume there would have been lots of deaths...but that is gesture politics for you.

So when you advocate Christianity being turned into a slave revolt are YOU advocating violence?

[BeRational]

No but I wonder if he would say that your reading of it was.

Well I do not see him coming out clearly against slavery.

Your god was very much in favour of it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well I do not see him coming out clearly against slavery.

Your god was very much in favour of it.

I'm sure that he gave us a lot of teaching on how to conduct ourselves and didn't at all advocate slavery.

God was in favour of Eden.

[BeRational]

I'm sure that he gave us a lot of teaching on how to conduct ourselves and didn't at all advocate slavery.

God was in favour of Eden.

Then you have not read your bible.

You god absolutely DOES advocate slavery.

See Exodus 21
Exodus 21English Standard Version (ESV)

Laws About Slaves
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.

15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

17 “Whoever curses[c] his father or his mother shall be put to death.

18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.

20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

You can even kill your slave if he/she dies a few days after a beating.

[floo]

Many of the Biblical decrees supposedly issued by god, are criminal.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Then you have not read your bible.

You god absolutely DOES advocate slavery.

See Exodus 21
Exodus 21English Standard Version (ESV)

Laws About Slaves
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.

15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

17 “Whoever curses[c] his father or his mother shall be put to death.

18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.

20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

You can even kill your slave if he/she dies a few days after a beating.

No advocacy for slavery here. Just Hebrew laws about the practice.

[Shaker]

No advocacy for slavery here. Just Hebrew laws about the practice.

No word about owning people being wrong, then?

[BeRational]

No advocacy for slavery here. Just Hebrew laws about the practice.

This is prescribed in the bible which some christians think is inspired by god.

Do you think slavery is morally good or bad?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This is prescribed in the bible which some christians think is inspired by god.

Do you think slavery is morally good or bad?

These laws are within the context that God advocates Eden but mankind has chosen a certain path and are a working through the evils of that age. For all we know they are the most liberal in the world of that time but certainly there is no advocacy of slavery.

I have stated previously that slavery is an evil.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This is prescribed in the bible which some christians think is inspired by god.

It isn't prescribed for me and yes the Bible is inspired by God.

[floo]

It isn't prescribed for me and yes the Bible is inspired by God.

It might be inspired by the idea of a god existing, but not by an actual entity.