Searching for GOD...

[BeRational]

These laws are within the context that God advocates Eden but mankind has chosen a certain path and are a working through the evils of that age. For all we know they are the most liberal in the world of that time but certainly there is no advocacy of slavery.

I have stated previously that slavery is an evil.

Why does you god not think slavery is evil.

Your morality is at odds with the bible.

Are you saying god was wrong to advocate slavery?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why does you god not think slavery is evil.

Your morality is at odds with the bible.

Are you saying god was wrong to advocate slavery?

God hasn't advocated slavery. He advocates Eden. Any problems are of Human origin. God works around that.

[BeRational]

God hasn't advocated slavery. He advocates Eden. Any problems are of Human origin. God works around that.

Then you cannot read!

The bible advocates slavery, and some think the bible is inspired by god.

You think the bible is not inspired by god, so he has nothing to answer for, for its contents?

[Shaker]

It isn't prescribed for me and yes the Bible is inspired by God.

So why is there no word that owning people as forced labourers is wrong?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Then you cannot read!

The bible advocates slavery, and some think the bible is inspired by god.

You think the bible is not inspired by god, so he has nothing to answer for, for its contents?

The bible does not command slavery. The primary will of God is Eden, the biblical view is that trouble is down to human action and slavery is certainly a human thing.

In the New testament Jesus states that divorce and its subsequent laws are a concession. Divorce is not advocated yet has laws. Slavery is not advocated yet has laws.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So why is there no word that owning people as forced labourers is wrong?

I think it is implicit in the NT that freedom is a better estate.

[Shaker]

The bible does not command slavery. The primary will of God is Eden, the biblical view is that trouble is down to human action and slavery is certainly a human thing.

Which this god thing is impotent to prevent, presumably.

[Shaker]

I think it is implicit in the NT that freedom is a better estate.

Good. I think so too ... though I'd have thought a supposedly omnimax being trying to get its plan for humanity out there would do better than imply, no?

So is this god whatsit in a position to bring about this better estate, or not?

[BeRational]

I think it is implicit in the NT that freedom is a better estate.

You are just spinning god obviously advocating slavery to seem that he does not.

God also advocates worshipping Satan as lord. Not in so many words though!
But if you can make words mean something else, so can I.

The ten commandments did not mention not owning people.

It mentions other less important things.

Why is this?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Which this god thing is impotent to prevent, presumably.

The existence of this universe is dependent on God, The continuation of the universe is dependent on God, however the universe has been given the capability of self determination. It is not a ''slave''.

[floo]

The Biblical can be interpreted any which way to suit all POVs.

[BeRational]

The existence of this universe is dependent on God, The continuation of the universe is dependent on God, however the universe has been given the capability of self determination. It is not a ''slave''.

I do not believe that is true.

Can you demonstrate that assertion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You are just spinning god obviously advocating slavery to seem that he does not.

God also advocates worshipping Satan as lord. Not in so many words though!
But if you can make words mean something else, so can I.

The ten commandments did not mention not owning people.

It mentions other less important things.

Why is this?

He does not advocate slavery.
Your suggestion that he advocates worship of the devil shows how wrong your definitions of ''advocate are''. Look those up.

The ten commandments were for the Hebrews The seven noachide laws are for all humanity.

[Shaker]

The existence of this universe is dependent on God, The continuation of the universe is dependent on God, however the universe has been given the capability of self determination. It is not a ''slave''.

Hacking my way through the tangled thicket of bald assertion there, I'm not referring to anything as abstract as the universe being a slave, whatever that might even mean: we were talking about the practice of human beings owning other human beings as forced labourers. Is this something that your god can put a stop to or not? That was the question I asked.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I do not believe that is true.

Can you demonstrate that assertion.

That we are surrounded by derived ability suggests ultimate actual ability. In fact you cannot have derived ability without it.

Shaker starts with the premise that God is impotent I was merely exploring that philosophy. Philosophies can be demonstrated philosophically.

[Shaker]

Shaker starts with the premise that God is impotent I was merely exploring that philosophy.

No; Shaker starts with a comparison between 1. what goddists say about their god and its alleged powers/attributes/characteristics and 2. the world around me, and draws conclusions from the disparity between the two.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hacking my way through the tangled thicket of bald assertion there, I'm not referring to anything as abstract as the universe being a slave, whatever that might even mean: we were talking about the practice of human beings owning other human beings as forced labourers. Is this something that your god can put a stop to or not? That was the question I asked.

And I replied that God can slam the brakes on............but he has to consider the passengers. If he suddenly will that all the Materialist Modern Slavers suddenly change their mind in a miraculous suspension of human free will might lead him logically to suspend self administration throughout the universe.....No doubt you will tell us whether that is a good thing.

[Shaker]

And I replied that God can slam the brakes on............but he has to consider the passengers. If he suddenly will that all the Materialist Modern Slavers suddenly change their mind in a miraculous suspension of human free will might lead him logically to suspend self administration throughout the universe.....No doubt you will tell us whether that is a good thing.

Do we have free will, then? I never got that memo.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No; Shaker starts with a comparison between 1. what goddists say about their god and its alleged powers/attributes/characteristics and 2. the world around me, and draws conclusions from the disparity between the two.

Shaker, you were indulging in the ''If God existed'' game. That's fine............ all of us proceed with the knowledge that there is nothing material about the essence of God and therefore no evidence of that nature so less of the gratuitous ''assertion'' stuff thank you.

Given that you, looking at the world, advocate Impotence. I advocate freedom for the universe, of self development.

[Shaker]

Shaker, you were indulging in the ''If God existed'' game. That's fine............ all of us proceed with the knowledge that there is nothing material about the essence of God and therefore no evidence of that nature so less of the gratuitous ''assertion'' stuff thank you.

I would certainly welcome less of the gratuitous assertion stuff, viz.:

The existence of this universe is dependent on God, The continuation of the universe is dependent on God ... God can slam the brakes on ... human free will

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do we have free will, then? I never got that memo.

Of a type yes.

I'm reminded of another and more superior spirituality and ethics forum I used to contribute to.
An atheist interlocutor who I greatly respected in my own way claimed to have pinned my position thus.

That I actually believed the only really free choice was for or against Jesus.

I don't know about that but I value his opinion.

[Shaker]

Takes all sorts I suppose.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I would certainly welcome less of the gratuitous assertion stuff, viz.:

It's not gratuitous and is just proceeding from the point you claim to proceed from, the world around us.

[Shaker]

It's not gratuitous and is just proceeding from the point you claim to proceed from, the world around us.

It is entirely, fulminatingly gratuitous since nothing proceeds from the world around us to:

The existence of this universe is dependent on God, The continuation of the universe is dependent on God ... God can slam the brakes on ... human free will

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It might be inspired by the idea of a god existing, but not by an actual entity.

1: Derived ability which we are surrounded by definitionally depends on an actual ability.