Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

AB,

And your answer to 19,545?

For a detailed answer I would refer you to :
"God in the Dock" by CS Lewis

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

For a detailed answer I would refer you to :
"God in the Dock" by CS Lewis

I asked for neither a detailed answer nor for Lewis's answer. Its a simple enough question for you I'd have thought: why avoid it?

[ippy]

There isn't a single secular view of nature. You sen very confused to even suggest that. It looks as if you have no understanding of what secular means.

I keep telling Vlad that he hasn't managed to get his head around any understanding of secularism just as you've done here, I think he's so into looking up new words in his thesaurus and using the ones that he doesn't fully understand, rather than trying to understand the actual things people ask of him.

Vlad try using everyday ordinary English in your posts, they'd be so much easier to understand, throw in the odd few well known colloquialisms as well, not all of us are grammar police.

If you read up on Anthony Graylings books where he explains the basic principles of secularism, it might help you, if you read it with an open mind, take his actual words in carefully and don't make yourself twist his words into whatever you seem determined to think he is
saying.     

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

I keep telling Vlad that he hasn't managed to get his head around any understanding of secularism just as you've done here, I think he's so into looking up new words in his thesaurus and using the ones that he doesn't fully understand, rather than trying to understand the actual things people ask of him.

Vlad try using everyday ordinary English in your posts, they'd be so much easier to understand, throw in the odd few well known colloquialisms as well, not all of us are grammar police.

If you read up on Anthony Graylings books where he explains the basic principles of secularism, it might help you, if you read it with an open mind, take his actual words in carefully and don't make yourself twist his words into whatever you seem determined to think he is
saying.     

ippy

While I don't disagree with the sentiment, in this case I was replying to Alan Burns.

[Enki]

To follow your suggestion then, I'm waiting for the 'gift' to be taken away from me. I have a feeling I'll be waiting till the day I die, when all 'gifts' will be taken away from me. 

Still waiting,  Alan, but, unfortunately I can see a problem. The problem is that if I am simply living under the illusion of free will, then there is no way to tell if your God has taken his 'gift' away from me, or, alternatively, I didn't have it in the first place.

Mind you, the same goes for you.

[bluehillside Retd.]

ipster,

I keep telling Vlad that he hasn't managed to get his head around any understanding of secularism...etc

I've cautioned him about this many times. It's hard to tell where ignorance of the correct meanings elides into deliberate fabrication, but his relentless mis-use of "atheism", "scientism", "methodological naturalism", "secularism", "anti-theism", "category error" etc just serves to make him look either foolish or dishonest. He's also incidentally keen on throwaway phrases like, "of course we must remember Kant here", "refute Locke then" and the like when he shows no sign of knowing what these people had to say on the matter, if anything.     

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

For a detailed answer I would refer you to :
"God in the Dock" by CS Lewis

Well what about a straight answer to a straight question.

Whilst you make bald assertions daily on here your refusal to answer such straight questions, this is just one example, shows us all we need to know about how keen you are to look at your own position in the bald light of day.

Almost with every post you make your claim to be here to help others come to know an all powerful God, with whom your are certain you are in a direct relationship with and whom would know exactly what would convince me of his existence, travels even further beyond laughable.

So if God does exist and wants to be in a relationship with me, your post are having making that even less likely to happen. As I understand it some Christians think it is the Devil that is trying to drive people away from God.  Are you certain that you are not in a relationship with Satan? Isn't this exactly what you would expect, a non-believer moving (if indeed moving in any direction at all) further away from God?

[ippy]

While I don't disagree with the sentiment, in this case I was replying to Alan Burns.

Beg pud, it is usually Vlad that has difficulty in this area, got a new lawn mower petrol self propelled all shiny and new and I was having a job starting it, came in to have a rest after exhausting myself with the pull starter, pulled one or two posts while resting and still trying to get why it wouldn't start, didn't really have my mind on anything I was writing.

Got it to start in the end it was all about pulling the cord until just over TDC and then giving it some wellie, it used to work on my old 650 single cylinder Panther motor bike, just pre Jurassic, I know.

[bluehillside Retd.]

ipster,

Beg pud, it is usually Vlad that has difficulty in this area, got a new lawn mower petrol self propelled all shiny and new and I was having a job starting it, came in to have a rest after exhausting myself with the pull starter, pulled one or two posts while resting and still trying to get why it wouldn't start, didn't really have my mind on anything I was writing.

Got it to start in the end it was all about pulling the cord until just over TDC and then giving it some wellie, it used to work on my old 650 single cylinder Panther motor bike, just pre Jurassic, I know.

Top tip: if it has a rubber primer bulb press it three times to get some petrol through and then pull the cord.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Fallacy Boy,

There doesn’t have to be ay such thing, even if that thing is itself gibberish.

The infinite regression problem inherent in your cosmological argument – if you decide that everything must have come from something before it, then the same problem applies to that prior something. Your only way out is to magic it into being itself uncaused – which takes you back to the cartoon of the blackboard with the long formula in the middle of which it says “miracle happens here”. “God’” in other words adds nothing of explanatory value.

You’re as confused as always. A termite mound doesn’t exist because termites know about termite mounds. Part of the problem here is trying to guess what you think you mean by “derived”, but if you think there must be a sort of master planner with all the blueprints in his head then emergence shows you to be wrong.

If not, that then takes your basic “if there’s stuff then other stuff must have preceded it”, which also collapses very quickly (see above).   

This from the king of ducking and diving?

Anyways, it has nothing to do with atheism but rather with basic logic – and your inability to harness it. 

As I said, stop lying. Tell us what you think you mean by “derived” and I’ll tell you whether or not I agree.

Do you lie this much in normal life, or is it just something you enjoy doing here?

All assertion with nothing to support it.
It might make some antitheists moist (The incredible Bartholin Brothers)
As for the termite nonsense, quote where I suggest such a thing.

Yours not holding his breath.

Vlad

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

All assertion with nothing to support it.

You're very confused. "Assertion with nothing to support it" is what you do. Reasoned explanation is what I do - see above re my explanation of your infinite regression problem as an example.

It might make some antitheists moist (The incredible Bartholin Brothers)
As for the termite nonsense, quote where I suggest such a thing.

Yours not holding his breath.

You fell of a cliff with your "derived" nonsense. Possibly you were trying to say something closer to "contingent on"? You'd still be wrong if you were, but at least you'd have sorted out your terminology.

[Spud]

Spud,

Fuck me.

Apart from the two above, words almost fail me. There really are people walking among us who believe this kind of crap in a basket. Where would you even begin to educate someone that lost to reason and decency?

Where though?

Sincere apologies. I confused Leviticus 20:27

'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

with Leviticus 20:14

'If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.'

The latter verse demonstrates the reason for the OT capital punishment laws, the purpose of which was to preserve a faithful remnant through which the Saviour, promised in Genesis 3, was born.

[Nearly Sane]

Sincere apologies. I confused Leviticus 20:27

'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

with Leviticus 20:14

'If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.'

The latter verse demonstrates the reason I gave for the OT capital punishment laws, whose purpose was to preserve a faithful remnant through which the Saviour, promised in Genesis 3, was born.

Your god is a mad thug.

[Spud]

Your god is a mad thug.

Either that or witchcraft and incest are really bad.

[Nearly Sane]

'no, don't burn the witch, that way God will never be able to sacrifice himself to himself to forgive people for eating an apple. Stone the witch!!!'

[Nearly Sane]

Either that or witchcraft and incest are really bad.

Are you trying to start a Christian wing of IS? Tell me what your god wants to do to homosexuals, and whether you agree with it?

[Sebastian Toe]

Either that or witchcraft and incest are really bad.

Is witchcraft etc ok now ,  given that said prophecy has been fulfilled?

[Gordon]

Sincere apologies. I confused Leviticus 20:27

'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

with Leviticus 20:14

'If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.'

The latter verse demonstrates the reason for the OT capital punishment laws, the purpose of which was to preserve a faithful remnant through which the Saviour, promised in Genesis 3, was born.

Thing is Spud this is superstitious and primitive bollocks from antiquity, and without much in the way of provenance at that - why on earth do you take it seriously?

Just ignore it: you might have noticed that society and attitudes in general have moved on from times BCE so this OT nonsense is at best a curiousity.

[Nearly Sane]

Thing is Spud this is superstitious and primitive bollocks from antiquity, and without much in the way of provenance at that - why on earth do you take it seriously?

Just ignore it: you might have noticed that society and attitudes in general have moved on from times BCE so this OT nonsense is at best a curiousity.

I am less of an optimist about progress. This sort of evil shite seems all to modern. Do we burn you or stone you just because the big book of evil cuntiness says so?

[Rhiannon]

Either that or witchcraft and incest are really bad.

Spud, you do know that witches use and read this forum, right?

[Rhiannon]

I do miss the forum coven. Those were the days...

[Gordon]

I do miss the forum coven. Those were the days...

'When shall we three meet again' 

[Nearly Sane]

I do miss the forum coven. Those were the days...

Did you weigh more than a duck?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Spud,

Either that or witchcraft and incest are really bad.

Are you seriously suggesting that these things (and by the way, the "witches" concerned were usually no more than herbalists, eccentrics, or just local gossips someone decided to dob in) deserve stoning, presumably followed by an eternity of incineration prodded by cloven-footed horned types?

What kind of psychopath do you worship exactly?

[ippy]

ipster,

Top tip: if it has a rubber primer bulb press it three times to get some petrol through and then pull the cord.

It has a primer like bulb just below the air filter but I can't find any reference to this in the rather sparse on instructions, instruction books, all three of them, I suppose this primer like bulb could be as you say, I'll try it when I come back from recovery tomorrow, thanks.

ippy