Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3881571 times)

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19575 on: July 06, 2017, 09:14:37 PM »
ipster,

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It has a primer like bulb just below the air filter but I can't find any reference to this in the rather sparse on instructions, instruction books, all three of them, I suppose this primer like bulb could be as you say, I'll try it when I come back from recovery tomorrow, thanks.

That'll be it. Make sure you have fuel in the tank, then press the bulb slowly three times - normally it takes a couple seconds to pop out again. Should fire up first time after that. Once the engine is warm, if you need to switch off (to remove the clippings basket for example) just press it once before starting up again as there'll be some fuel in the system already.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19576 on: July 06, 2017, 09:35:17 PM »
ipster,

I've cautioned him about this many times. It's hard to tell where ignorance of the correct meanings elides into deliberate fabrication, but his relentless mis-use of "atheism", "scientism", "methodological naturalism", "secularism", "anti-theism", "category error" etc just serves to make him look either foolish or dishonest. He's also incidentally keen on throwaway phrases like, "of course we must remember Kant here", "refute Locke then" and the like when he shows no sign of knowing what these people had to say on the matter, if anything.   

I think it's a lack of confidence issue with him and while trying to, he thinks, impress others, he picks up words an phrases that he hasn't fully grasped before he uses them.

I did think perhaps he needs to reach that point where he hits rock bottom before he would realise what a king size prat he's making of himself, before he had a rethink and did some revision of the meaningless load of twaddle he keeps presenting here, but on thinking about it perhaps it's another case of the lovely old Sparky syndrome, for which unfortunately there's no cure?

My skills lay elsewhere they're not to the forefront in written English or particularly spelling, it doesn't have to mean you're an idiot and this is, I think, something Vlad needs to come to terms with he's just the same as a lot of us, there's no shame in it.

ippy

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19577 on: July 06, 2017, 09:46:49 PM »
ipster,

That'll be it. Make sure you have fuel in the tank, then press the bulb slowly three times - normally it takes a couple seconds to pop out again. Should fire up first time after that. Once the engine is warm, if you need to switch off (to remove the clippings basket for example) just press it once before starting up again as there'll be some fuel in the system already.

Goodo, I'l do just that thanks a once again Blue.

I thought it worth a mention, the motor is a Lamboghini, yes it is very fast around the corners and no the name had no influence on me to buy this particular mower.

Really it's a Lambo, the status!

ippy

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19578 on: July 06, 2017, 10:03:06 PM »
Hi ipster,

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Goodo, I'l do just that thanks a once again Blue.

I thought it worth a mention, the motor is a Lamboghini, yes it is very fast around the corners and no the name had no influence on me to buy this particular mower.

Really it's a Lambo, the status!

That'll be the Lamborghini Murcielawno I expect...

...I'll get me coat  :-[

Hope the tip works though.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 10:16:08 PM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19579 on: July 06, 2017, 10:29:02 PM »
Fallacy Boy,

You're very confused. "Assertion with nothing to support it" is what you do. Reasoned explanation is what I do - see above re my explanation of your infinite regression problem as an example.

You fell of a cliff with your "derived" nonsense. Possibly you were trying to say something closer to "contingent on"? You'd still be wrong if you were, but at least you'd have sorted out your terminology.
Come on , The termite bit was total gibberish...Is Termite the new Leprechaun?
Look we all know how it is ...You go for a long bike ride...You pull a few wheelies to impress the local chapter of the National Secular Society...and your blood sugar level plummets.........result ''The Termites''. It happens to the best of us.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19580 on: July 06, 2017, 10:42:40 PM »
ipster,

That'll be it. Make sure you have fuel in the tank, then press the bulb slowly three times - normally it takes a couple seconds to pop out again. Should fire up first time after that. Once the engine is warm, if you need to switch off (to remove the clippings basket for example) just press it once before starting up again as there'll be some fuel in the system already.

I was about to buy a petrol mower but this sounds like a man tool.  :-\

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19581 on: July 07, 2017, 08:10:21 AM »
I was about to buy a petrol mower but this sounds like a man tool.  :-\

Brilliant!!

ippy

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19582 on: July 07, 2017, 10:38:14 AM »
Fallacy Boy,

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Come on , The termite bit was total gibberish...

Except it wasn’t. Your understanding of the terms you attempt is so appalling (or dishonest) that dialogue is close to impossible, but your “derived from” implied that the prior phenomenon must have somehow contained the “ability” (as you put it) of the subsequent one. This is clearly nonsense, as even a cursory understanding of emergence would tell you.

What you actually seem to have meant (so far as I can tell) is “contingent on” which merely requires that the prior phenomenon existed at all rather than that if contained the properties of the subsequent one.
     
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Is Termite the new Leprechaun?

The problem with your relentless lying is that I don’t know whether you still don’t understand that leprechauns are a useful analogy when you attempt a bad argument for “God”, or you do understand that but you prefer to lie about it nonetheless (“category f***” etc). Oh well.

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Look we all know how it is ...You go for a long bike ride...You pull a few wheelies to impress the local chapter of the National Secular Society...and your blood sugar level plummets.........result ''The Termites''. It happens to the best of us.

You crashed, you burned. Move on.

Once we unscramble the incoherent thinking and we correct the abuse of language, you reveal yourself as a common-or-garden cosmological argument merchant. Embarrassing for you as that is, there it is nonetheless. Do I really need to explain to you again why it's hopeless?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:34:56 AM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19583 on: July 07, 2017, 11:44:19 AM »
Sincere apologies. I confused Leviticus 20:27

'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

with Leviticus 20:14

'If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.'

The latter verse demonstrates the reason for the OT capital punishment laws, the purpose of which was to preserve a faithful remnant through which the Saviour, promised in Genesis 3, was born.

Both verses do the Bible no credit at all! >:(

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19584 on: July 07, 2017, 12:43:59 PM »
AB,

Incidentally Alan, you claimed somewhere that you understood the meaning of the term "logical fallacy" yet it's a rare post from you that doesn't contain one or several of them. What should we make of this: that you actually have no idea of the meaning (and why it matters); or that you do know but you think it's just fine to rely on them nonetheless?

You also told us that you have in the locker some cogent logic for your beliefs, but you don't have the time to tell us what it is even though you do have the time to post lots of broken logic.

If you're sincere in wanting other people to agree with you, why do that when logic would be more effect than illogic?
The logic I use is intended to indicate the possibility of God's existence, and our own spiritual nature.  The reason I get so many accusations of fallacy is presumably because the accusers think I am trying to prove the existence of God and our spiritual souls.  If my logic is seen to be an attempt at proof, then I would agree with the accusers.  But I hope my posts can at least cause pause for thought in those who genuinely search for truth.

On the subject of discovering the truth behind our existence, if you were to ask ten philosophers for to describe their concept of reality, you would invariably get ten different answers.  I believe this indicates that the human mind alone is not capable of discovering the absolute truth behind our existence, so we need to look beyond our fickle human reasoning.  So what I hope the searchers can do is to at least accept the possibility of God and our human soul, and with this in mind, read the words on the New Testament, listen to those who witness to God in their lives, and open the door of your mind and allow God to come into your life.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 12:48:56 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19585 on: July 07, 2017, 12:46:36 PM »
The logic I use is intended to indicate the possibility of God's existence, and our own spiritual nature.  The reason I get so many accusations of fallacy is presumably because the accusers think I am trying to prove the existence of God and our spiritual souls.

No, it's because you deploy fallacious arguments.
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If my logic is seen to be an attempt at proof, then I would agree with the accusers.  But I hope my posts can at least cause pause for thought in those who genuinely search for truth.
I would ask how you think that's going, but of course, that's the question you'll never answer, isn't it?

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I believe this indicates that the human mind alone is not capable of discovering the absolute truth behind our existence
Is there one, then? How do you claim to know this?

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So what I hope the searchers can do is to at least accept the possibility of God and our human soul, and with this in mind, read the words on the New Testament, listen to those who witness to God in their lives, and open the door of your mind and allow God to come into your life.
No thanks, I don't open the door to religious groups.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 12:53:45 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19586 on: July 07, 2017, 12:49:28 PM »
Msg 19586 AB "the possibility of gods existence" Why dont you give up. It would be easier on your brain.
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19587 on: July 07, 2017, 12:51:20 PM »
Msg 19586 AB "the possibility of gods existence" Why dont you give up. It would be easier on your brain.
I can't do this because God has made Himself known to me.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19588 on: July 07, 2017, 12:55:44 PM »
No accounting for taste.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19589 on: July 07, 2017, 12:58:02 PM »
msg 19589 AB Dont you find it all just a little muddled that you think you got something, others havnt(whatever that something is). Its all garbled. Your god could not say it straight, direct, no interpretation etc in these modern times to everyone. And your left with a "possibility" Sure it could be a possibility but the odds arnt on your side by a country mile. Whose fault is that?
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19590 on: July 07, 2017, 01:02:11 PM »
The logic I use is intended to indicate the possibility of God's existence, and our own spiritual nature.  The reason I get so many accusations of fallacy is presumably because the accusers think I am trying to prove the existence of God and our spiritual souls.  If my logic is seen to be an attempt at proof, then I would agree with the accusers.  But I hope my posts can at least cause pause for thought in those who genuinely search for truth.

On the subject of discovering the truth behind our existence, if you were to ask ten philosophers for to describe their concept of reality, you would invariably get ten different answers.  I believe this indicates that the human mind alone is not capable of discovering the absolute truth behind our existence, so we need to look beyond our fickle human reasoning.  So what I hope the searchers can do is to at least accept the possibility of God and our human soul, and with this in mind, read the words on the New Testament, listen to those who witness to God in their lives, and open the door of your mind and allow God to come into your life.

You keep using different terms here.   We have 'the truth behind our existence', 'concept of reality', 'absolute truth behind our existence'.    I haven't a clue what you mean here, especially that little word 'behind'.    I don't know if there is something behind anything, but you assert that there is.    Well, I might as well say that it's all the workings of Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.     
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19591 on: July 07, 2017, 01:08:06 PM »
The logic I use is intended to indicate the possibility of God's existence, and our own spiritual nature.  The reason I get so many accusations of fallacy is presumably because the accusers think I am trying to prove the existence of God and our spiritual souls.

That's nonsense, clearly you haven't been reading posts, and if you have, then you haven't understood them, and if you have understood them, then you haven't engaged with that understanding.  Nobody that I have seen has been asking you for proof, quite the contrary it is us who keep reminding you that outside of pure logic and maths proofs are impossible.  What we go on is evidence and reason and it is your lack of evidence and reason that you keep getting called up on.  Show us some evidence, and show us some sound reasoning, not your usual fallacy-ridden circular stuff, and then you might start to make some progress with influencing people.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19592 on: July 07, 2017, 01:08:20 PM »
AB,

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The logic I use is intended to indicate the possibility of God's existence, and our own spiritual nature.

That’s another fallacy, in this case the fallacy of the vacuous truth. No-one denies that anything is possible (I’m leaving aside for now your definitional problems with “God” and “spiritual” by the way), and there’s no particular logic needed to “indicate” that. “God”, leprechauns, unicorns sneezing glitter are all conceptually at least possible.

Your problem here though is to find some logic to take you from possible to probable.   

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The reason I get so many accusations of fallacy is presumably because the accusers think I am trying to prove the existence of God and our spiritual souls.  If my logic is seen to be an attempt at proof, then I would agree with the accusers.

That’s not true. Time and time again when you’re asked why you believe the things you believe, you answer with one or several fallacies. If the question was instead, “Why do you think these things are possible?” you might have a point here, but that isn’t the question at all for the good reason that it’s not worth asking.

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But I hope my posts can at least cause pause for thought in those who genuinely search for truth.

Of course they can’t because merely asserting something – anything in fact – to be possible tells you nothing whatever about whether it's probable. The only rational response therefore is, “So what?”.

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On the subject of discovering the truth behind our existence, if you were to ask ten philosophers for to describe their concept of reality, you would invariably get ten different answers.

No you wouldn’t. Generally philosophers subscribe to and cohere around common positions. If by “invariably” you actually meant something like, “If I looked hard enough I might be able to find ten philosophers with ten different answers” you might have a point, though I suspect most would baulk at your premise of “the” truth a priori

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I believe this indicates that the human mind alone is not capable of discovering the absolute truth behind our existence, so we need to look beyond our fickle human reasoning.

That’s two fallacies in one sentence – the vacuous truth and the non sequitur.

First, no-one suggests that we are capable of discovering “the absolute truth” (how would we ever know that it is absolute, or even that such a thing exists?).

Second, your “so we need…” etc doesn’t follow from the premise. It assumes both that there is absolute truth, and that there is a means other than reason of identifying it. 

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So what I hope the searchers can do is to at least accept the possibility of God and our human soul, and with this in mind, read the words on the New Testament, open the door of your mind and allow God to come into your life.

And you finish with the fallacy of reification. Did you see what you did there? You pushed at the open door of “anything’s possible” to asserting “God”, the inerrancy of the NT etc with no connecting logic of any kind to take you from the former to the latter.   

This is the Grand Canyon-sized gap in your thinking. Start with attempting at least some coherent definitions for “God”, “soul”, “spiritual” etc and then – finally – try to find some reasoning that takes you further than “these things are possible”.

Until you can do that, your efforts here are epistemically equivalent to me telling you that unicorns are possible, and that you should read the Big Book of Unicornology to “allow unicorns to come into your life”.

Good luck with it though.   
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 01:22:15 PM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19593 on: July 07, 2017, 01:12:51 PM »
As torridon and blue have said, no-one denies that God is a possiblity, or in fact, Venusian mermaids as well. 

I don't see how AB is going to be able to demonstrate the reality of a supernatural being, since 'demonstrate' is Kryptonite to 'supernatural'. 
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19594 on: July 07, 2017, 01:15:47 PM »
On the subject of discovering the truth behind our existence, if you were to ask ten philosophers for to describe their concept of reality, you would invariably get ten different answers.  I believe this indicates that the human mind alone is not capable of discovering the absolute truth behind our existence, so we need to look beyond our fickle human reasoning.

Not really possible.  Human reasoning is the only variety I am capable of.  You too, if you are human.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19595 on: July 07, 2017, 01:16:16 PM »
AB,

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I can't do this because God has made Himself known to me.

A personal belief which is no doubt sincerely held, but one which you give others no reason for others to think is correct.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19596 on: July 07, 2017, 01:18:03 PM »
As torridon and blue have said, no-one denies that God is a possiblity, or in fact, Venusian mermaids as well. 
I'm going to have to be 'that guy' here - I have a prior concept of Venus and a prior concept of mermaids so I know what the possibility of Venusian mermaids would entail (where to go looking; how I would know if we found one etc.) but I can't say the same of gods - I don't understand what it is the possibility of that I'm being asked to entertain.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19597 on: July 07, 2017, 01:22:46 PM »
...So what I hope the searchers can do is to at least accept the possibility of God and our human soul, and with this in mind, read the words on the New Testament, listen to those who witness to God in their lives, and open the door of your mind and allow God to come into your life.

And if God refuses to rock up, what are people supposed to do ?  Take up knitting perhaps ...

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19598 on: July 07, 2017, 01:51:12 PM »
I'm going to have to be 'that guy' here - I have a prior concept of Venus and a prior concept of mermaids so I know what the possibility of Venusian mermaids would entail (where to go looking; how I would know if we found one etc.) but I can't say the same of gods - I don't understand what it is the possibility of that I'm being asked to entertain.

Very good point.   I suppose if you ask, you will get a ton of vagueness.   
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #19599 on: July 07, 2017, 02:15:35 PM »
Very good point.   I suppose if you ask, you will get a ton of vagueness.
Moreover: not just vagueness but lots of different, mutually inconsistent and contradictory vagueness.

And yet AB is more than happy to talk of the absolute truth behind our existence.

Definitely a three-pipe one.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.