Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

I think I've said that were done Old Chap.

You've said a great many things that aren't true. Have you finally run out of lies to tell about the arguments that undo you?

I think we should be told.

[Rhiannon]

Rhi,

I agree of course. It's as if they think they have a higher standard because they "believe in Jesus", so any lie, any logical fallacy, any anything is fine so long as it supports that position. Odd indeed.

It certainly doesn't do much to make their faith attractive. It's all a bit Donnie Trump - my children can lie and lie so long as it helps me to stay in power.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It certainly doesn't do much to make their faith attractive. It's all a bit Donnie Trump - my children can lie and lie so long as it helps me to stay in power.

What constitutes an attractive Christianity to some I think is service toward them and a group of people to take their antitheism/antichristianity out on.

religionethics needs to review how it treats people e,g, mobbing and monstering since it is failing to attract.

[Rhiannon]

What constitutes an attractive Christianity to some I think is service toward them and a group of people to take their antitheism/antichristianity out on.

religionethics needs to review how it treats people e,g, mobbing and monstering since it is failing to attract.

Why would someone want to join when there is so much lying going on that debate becomes impossible?

And there is an uncomfortable fact to face. Message boards are online dinosaurs. These days everyone uses Facebook and Yahoo groups, Instagram and Tumblr.

[SusanDoris]

Monday morning, and another interesting read of four or five pages! Sunday seems to be a regular 'this page can't be displayed' day for me.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why would someone want to join when there is so much lying going on that debate becomes impossible?

And there is an uncomfortable fact to face. Message boards are online dinosaurs. These days everyone uses Facebook and Yahoo groups, Instagram and Tumblr.

I think you have to look at who has gone and who has gone in.
There are those on this board who feel they can say anything, join any lynching party.
Opportunities for decent exchange are shunned or misused vis The debate board and the question for Christian thread which had it's aims clearly set out but didn't take long for the posse to come in with it's usual ad hominem rhetoric.
There are clearly decent folks of all persuasions here who don't seem to present the same ''needs'' as a hard core of axe grinders and those who IMHO like to ''punk'' others.

An experiment in the absence of more from this board who would have IMHO very good reasons to take a holiday from the monstering and mobbing, whereby the hardcore group are left by themselves, is overdue.
My prediction is that the bile would turn inwards.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

I think you have to look at who has gone and who has gone in.
There are those on this board who feel they can say anything, join any lynching party.
Opportunities for decent exchange are shunned or misused vis The debate board and the question for Christian thread which had it's aims clearly set out but didn't take long for the posse to come in with it's usual ad hominem rhetoric.
There are clearly decent folks of all persuasions here who don't seem to present the same ''needs'' as a hard core of axe grinders and those who IMHO like to ''punk'' others.

An experiment in the absence of more from this board who would have IMHO very good reasons to take a holiday from the monstering and mobbing, whereby the hardcore group are left by themselves, is overdue.
My prediction is that the bile would turn inwards.

Perhaps if you finally tried to engage in a reasoned exchange rather than lie about the arguments that undo you and insult the people who make them you’d actually contribute something?

Think of all those lovely bourbon biscuits.

[BeRational]

I think you have to look at who has gone and who has gone in.
There are those on this board who feel they can say anything, join any lynching party.
Opportunities for decent exchange are shunned or misused vis The debate board and the question for Christian thread which had it's aims clearly set out but didn't take long for the posse to come in with it's usual ad hominem rhetoric.
There are clearly decent folks of all persuasions here who don't seem to present the same ''needs'' as a hard core of axe grinders and those who IMHO like to ''punk'' others.

An experiment in the absence of more from this board who would have IMHO very good reasons to take a holiday from the monstering and mobbing, whereby the hardcore group are left by themselves, is overdue.
My prediction is that the bile would turn inwards.

Is mobbing when people ask you questions you do not want to answer?

[Rhiannon]

People also mistake taking a minority position for 'mobbing'. If a lot of people disagree then it's inevitable that a lot of people will voice that, especially when the minority view is a contentious and unpleasant one.

[ippy]

Why would someone want to join when there is so much lying going on that debate becomes impossible?

And there is an uncomfortable fact to face. Message boards are online dinosaurs. These days everyone uses Facebook and Yahoo groups, Instagram and Tumblr.

It's none of my business whether anyone coses to use facebook or not, I don't use facebook because when I looked into it they wanted far more information about me than I was prepared to give.

ippy

[floo]

It's none of my business whether anyone coses to use facebook or not, I don't use facebook because when I looked into it they wanted far more information about me than I was prepared to give.

ippy

Some forums do that too. I was on one for over 50s where they required everything including your full name, home address and phone number. When I registered, I made up my given name, the address and phone number, and was glad I did. The admin were getting money by passing on personal details to companies. When I discovered this I warned the other users before taking my leave of the forum. The Admin were not happy bunnies!

[SusanDoris]

bluehillside

Several thousand posts ago, you mentioned a book on emergence by a ? Johnson I think about termite mounds etc.  Could you  tell me titla and author's name, please?I would like to pass it on to a poster on GH who will, I think, be very interested.

[Rhiannon]

It's none of my business whether anyone coses to use facebook or not, I don't use facebook because when I looked into it they wanted far more information about me than I was prepared to give.

ippy

Exactly why I don't use it too. That and its data sharing policies. But it's not about whether it is our 'business' or not. A lot of people aren't fussed about the privacy issues and use it in preference to MBs such as this.

[Nearly Sane]

bluehillside

Several thousand posts ago, you mentioned a book on emergence by a ? Johnson I think about termite mounds etc.  Could you  tell me titla and author's name, please?I would like to pass it on to a poster on GH who will, I think, be very interested.

Susan,

I believe the book was Emergence: The connected lives of ants, brains, cities and software by Steven Johnson, link below



https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Emergence-Connected-Brains-Cities-Software-Johnson-2001-08-28/B01FIXFT7M

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Susan,

Several thousand posts ago, you mentioned a book on emergence by a ? Johnson I think about termite mounds etc.  Could you  tell me titla and author's name, please?I would like to pass it on to a poster on GH who will, I think, be very interested.

Of course – no problem:

Title: Emergence: The Connected Lives of Ants, Brains, Cities and Software

Author: Steven Johnson

ISBN-10: 0140287752

Amazon has the paperback version for £9.99, but if you click on alternative buying options someone else has it new for £3.62.

[SusanDoris]

NS and bluehilside

Many thanks.


Many thanks.

[ippy]

Exactly why I don't use it too. That and its data sharing policies. But it's not about whether it is our 'business' or not. A lot of people aren't fussed about the privacy issues and use it in preference to MBs such as this.

Exactly Rhi, that's why I said it's none of my business it's up to the individual, I make no judgement either way!

ippy

[Rhiannon]

Exactly Rhi, that's why I said it's none of my business it's up to the individual, I make no judgement either way!

ippy

Neither do I. But it probably goes a long way to explaining why message boards don't get too many new members.

[floo]

Neither do I. But it probably goes a long way to explaining why message boards don't get too many new members.

I see we have a new member today, I wonder if they will bother posting, unlike some recent new posters? Why on earth do people bother to join a forum if they aren't going to contribute? Most of the boards on this forum are open to visitors, so they can get the lie of the land before they register.

[Alan Burns]

Oh oh, not a promising start. 

1. Daring has nothing to do with it. What is required is evidence and reason. If there is convincing evidence then people might be convinced.

There is abundant evidence for those who are genuinely searching for it

2. Looks like your headed down an 'it's all about me' road, some narcissist's wet dream.

The universe exists in my conscious perception, and it is myself which has the power to interact with it, so yes, reality is about me.

3. You should know by now using free will as a springboard to belief will get you nowhere but into a great big muddle.

The muddle applies only when you try to define the concept of conscious acts of free will in materialistic terms.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

There is abundant evidence for those who are genuinely searching for it

Then why not finally provide some of it?

The universe exists in my conscious perception, and it is myself which has the power to interact with it, so yes, reality is about me.

Your reality Alan, your reality. Why do you assume that your reality is the same for other people in respect of your personal religious beliefs?

The muddle applies only when you try to define the concept of conscious acts of free will in materialistic terms.

No, the muddle comes when you try to assert the non-material because it collapses immediately into contradiction and incoherence. You cannot for example find your way out of the deterministic vs random conundrum it gives you. 

[torridon]

There is abundant evidence for those who are genuinely searching for it...

That sounds like a euphemistic use of the word 'evidence'. Proper evidence would be something that would help us differentiate between rival theories of cosmology, something that would convince NASA, say, or SETI. What you call evidence is something far less, more what I would call post hoc rationalisation, ie something you might come up with in order to justify a pre-existing belief. Some of us set the bar much higher than that.

[Alan Burns]

No, the muddle comes when you try to assert the non-material because it collapses immediately into contradiction and incoherence. You cannot for example find your way out of the deterministic vs random conundrum it gives you.

But it has nothing at all to do with random.

The question is about the source of an act of free will - is it the inevitable, unavoidable consequence of the physical chains of cause and effect which date back to the beginning of the universe, or is it a wilful interaction in the human brain which provides evidence for the spiritual power of the human soul?

[Alan Burns]

Your reality Alan, your reality. Why do you assume that your reality is the same for other people in respect of your personal religious beliefs?

Reality only exists in individual human perception, so my reality is the only reality I know.

[torridon]

Reality only exists in individual human perception, so my reality is the only reality I know.

Reality didn't exist before humans evolved ?  I don't buy that