Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

You do have this habit of using pejorative terns such as 'shallow' in place of actually engaging in discussion of the points. The logic being used is just logic. It's not mere, shallow, materialist or mimsy-wimsy. Just logic.

Given that despite being asked hundreds of times about this concept of freedom, all you have provided is logically incoherent, asserting that it's manifest is assertion. I know you have often bewailed that you don't have time and space to put forward your actual case, but can I suggest that instead of wasting your time, and mine by writing posts like the one above, which are merely repeated assertions and do not address any of the points that have been made, that you post fewer but more detailed posts, where you can develop your case and engage with other's arguments rather than continually ignoring them?

He can't. "It's magic" is the beginning and end of his thinking, albeit that he uses the term "spiritual" to express the same notion – presumably because to his ears it sounds all deep and meaningful and stuff.

Bluntly, there's nothing to develop. 

[Maeght]

My faith is considerably strengthened by the shallow logic of the materialist arguments which consign our freedom to consciously think and choose to be an illusion.  The reality of this freedom is manifest and is evidence of the spiritual power of the human soul.

Calling the logic shallow just because it doesn't match with what you need to believe is pretty poor Alan and does smack of desperation. You haven't ever been able to offer anything other than assertions so perhaps you should look at your own logic before criticising that of others.

[Shaker]

My faith is considerably strengthened by the shallow logic of the materialist arguments which consign our freedom to consciously think and choose to be an illusion.

Given that you've done nothing - absolutely nothing - to back up what is no more than a personal belief of yours, to say that you feel strengthened isn't illusion, but delusion.

The reality of this freedom is manifest and is evidence of the spiritual power of the human soul.

As I was saying ...

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

I wonder how AB would react if it was discovered, beyond any doubt whatsoever, no god/afterlife exists, and when we die that is it, FINITO? Would he be shocked he had spent so much time believing a myth to be true.

Well, discover it Floo. Just think of it? You could end religious belief once and for all! No more being tormented by talk of roasting in hell

His entire worldview would be in ruins, utter ruins.

800+ pages of this thread show that he hasn't got anything to worry about!

Now let the excuses begin ...

[torridon]

Well, discover it Floo. Just think of it? You could end religious belief once and for all! No more being tormented by talk of roasting in hell
800+ pages of this thread show that he hasn't got anything to worry about!

Now let the excuses begin ...

It should worry us all that people can be so completely blind, or indifferent, to reason.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sword,

Well, discover it Floo. Just think of it? You could end religious belief once and for all! No more being tormented by talk of roasting in hell

You can't discover the non-possibility of something.

800+ pages of this thread show that he hasn't got anything to worry about!

Not having anything to worry about and not understanding that there's a great deal to worry about are not the same thing.

Now let the excuses begin ...

None needed. The only excuse here is calling a conjecture "spiritual" in order to get off the hook of falsifying logic. 

[Shaker]

800+ pages of this thread show that he hasn't got anything to worry about!

Rational thought, logic and evidence being the very least.

[floo]

It should worry us all that people can be so completely blind, or indifferent, to reason.

Yes it should, but sadly it is a fact.

[SusanDoris]

It should worry us all that people can be so completely blind, or indifferent, to reason.

One of those people evidently being Sword of the Spirit.

[Maeght]

Now let the excuses begin ...

Excuses for what?

[floo]

It would appear that Christians, who are believe every word in the Bible is inspired by god, block out any logic or reason. It has nothing to do with intelligence, or lack of it. I have two doctors in mind, they are very intelligent, but when it comes to the Bible their fundamentalist approach appears to be devoid of any questioning or logical thought.

[Walter]

It would appear that Christians, who are believe every word in the Bible is inspired by god, block out any logic or reason. It has nothing to do with intelligence, or lack of it. I have two doctors in mind, they are very intelligent, but when it comes to the Bible their fundamentalist approach appears to be devoid of any questioning or logical thought.

Floo, I find it frightening.

[SusanDoris]

Floo, I find it frightening.

I think you are right. Especially so, when all that is needed is for the top world religious leaders (or I am sometimes inclined to think of them, con men) to admit strongly, forcibly, backed up with scientific knowledge, that the God or gods they imagine have a total of zero facts to back them up, that any dead person still alleged to be a spirit listening to prayers etc, is a myth, a figment of thousands of years of imagination.
They should then 100% support the TofE stating clearly that all we are, all we have ever done, or thought, or written has been entirely, totally, 100% because we are evolved humans.

Ah well, back to the drawing board! *sigh* Would that it coulde happen while I am still alive.

[floo]

Fundamentalist Christians tell us there is plenty of evidence to support the existence of god, but fail to present it.

[ippy]

Floo, I find it frightening.

As individuals people like Alan, shouldn't be that worrysome to the rest of us, where I find it does become a little alarming for me is the continuing insistance of these deluded people to keep on inflicting their religious dogma to the next generation, right from birth or sooner if it were possible.

Of course if the religions were to find some evidence that would support the magical mystical and superstition based parts of these beliefs well that would be quite 'surprising' and a different story; but there, I can't see there's much likelyhood of supporting evidence for that lot showing up any time soon.

It makes me wonder Alan, why you seem to think asserting things can be acepted without backing them up with any kind of support; bit irrational don't your think?

ippy

[Alan Burns]

Calling the logic shallow just because it doesn't match with what you need to believe is pretty poor Alan and does smack of desperation. You haven't ever been able to offer anything other than assertions so perhaps you should look at your own logic before criticising that of others.

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

[Shaker]

I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.

Argumentum ad numerum/ad populum - 250 points.

http://tinyurl.com/mt2xm5v

Next fallacy please!

[ippy]

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

You can't and haven't to date explained how or from where you have acquired your non-material assured evidence from Alan, how about it?

ippy

[Enki]

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

Your usual mix of distortion, easily challenged statements, assertion and incredulity, Alan, with logical fallacies thrown in for good measure. I can't really be bothered to make more of a response than this as I find you simply constantly repeat the same limited and questionable ideas. Believe them if you wish, Alan, it makes no difference to me.   

[torridon]

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

Maybe some of those arguing against you are of the 0.01% of the population who are curious to look beyond the obvious, to scratch the surface and see what lies underneath.  I'd agree with you in the sense that the vast majority of people for the vast majority of time do not concern themselves with concepts of logic or of epistemology or try to figure the mind bending concepts in cosmology or fundamental physics.  It's not for everyone.  I've never watched a single episode of Big Brother.  I really can't figure why people watch soap operas.  Maybe I'm just weird, but it seems to me like so many just fritter their time away on trivial flimflam when there is so much to learn and so little time to learn it in.

[Maeght]

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

Of course people would claim they have freedom to think but this does not mean that their thoughts are determined by previous events and that the freedom is an illusion. You then finish off with anither assertion. Poor.

[Sebastian Toe]

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

But if it is actually an illusion and you are living your life as if it is not, because of the nature of it. 
Thus as you have no way of perceiving it otherwise then you can carry on in blissful ignorance, peddling your soul ideas to anyone who will listen!

[Nearly Sane]

The logic of the materialist view is shallow because it limits all reality to be defined entirely by the perceived nature of this material universe.  The inevitable conclusion of this logic is that any form of freedom must be an illusion since everything will be defined by previous physical events and nothing else.  But I would envisage that more than 99.99% of the human population would claim that they have the freedom to think, speak and act as they so wish.  Our ability to invoke a conscious wish is not an inevitable reaction - it is our most precious gift and it is what makes us human

so you avoid your inability to make a logical case to make an ad populum assertion.

[Shaker]

Alan:

#20544; #20545; #20546; #20547; #20548: #20549 -

Seriously now;

Why do you continue to do this to yourself?

[Alan Burns]

Alan:

#20544; #20545; #20546; #20547; #20548: #20549 -

Seriously now;

Why do you continue to do this to yourself?

Because you have aptly demonstrated your God given freedom to label my posts with various fallacies, proving beyond doubt that you are in control of your own responses - you are not nature's puppet.