Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3863592 times)

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20550 on: July 29, 2017, 08:55:31 PM »
Because you have aptly demonstrated your God given freedom
OK.

No.

We can stop right there and, in my opinion, end the thread there.

You get nothing and understand nothing at all, and by now, given this much, never will.

You're here to preach your beliefs, by your own admission.

Which is one thing; but not only does nobody believe you, but nobody takes seriously a single word you say.

You're polluting what was once an interesting thread with broken record assertions of belief about your pet hobbyhorse of free will (ad infinitum; ad nauseam); and yet you demonstrate an utter lack of free will given that you haven't the free will to post anything which isn't replete with logical fallacies, which is to say, bad logic, bad arguments, bad thinking.

And still, in the face of all this mess, there's the monumental arrogance of your belief that logic is merely one person's personal and subjective opinion against that of another (I like marzipan; you don't like marzipan; therefore we're quits), and that reality conforms to your own personal feeling - which, by a phenomenal coincidence, just happens to be the belief system and world view in which by your own admission you were raised.

Do you actually know how you come across to rational people?

Do you care?

No; after all this time - all these years - all these posts - all your futile, utterly wasted words; no, I don't think you get it.

I don't think you do; moreover I don't think you can. You've shown yourself as incapable of rational thought and logical argumentation.

You cannot do it. Literally. You are constitutionally incapable of it.

As an Internet meme has it: Islam is mumbling to the floor; Judaism is mumbling to a wall; Christianity is mumbling to the ceiling.

And all of them are more productive than expecting you to engage in rational thought.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 08:25:07 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20551 on: July 30, 2017, 08:02:19 AM »
Well that's told him I think.

Probably won't take any notice though as you weren't wearing a pointy hat and long skirts.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20552 on: July 30, 2017, 08:22:08 AM »
Well that's told him I think.
No; if he was in any way open to new information or alternative thinking surely it would have happened by now. This thread is two years old after all and has well over 20,000 posts on it.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20553 on: July 30, 2017, 08:59:19 AM »
No; if he was in any way open to new information or alternative thinking surely it would have happened by now. This thread is two years old after all and has well over 20,000 posts on it.

Maybe it is time this thread was put to bed?

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20554 on: July 30, 2017, 09:48:03 AM »
Maybe some of those arguing against you are of the 0.01% of the population who are curious to look beyond the obvious, to scratch the surface and see what lies underneath.  I'd agree with you in the sense that the vast majority of people for the vast majority of time do not concern themselves with concepts of logic or of epistemology or try to figure the mind bending concepts in cosmology or fundamental physics.  It's not for everyone.  I've never watched a single episode of Big Brother.  I really can't figure why people watch soap operas.  Maybe I'm just weird, but it seems to me like so many just fritter their time away on trivial flimflam when there is so much to learn and so little time to learn it in.
I too never watch Big Brother or soap operas, and I too spend a lot of time contemplating the true nature of things.  I am fascinated by scientific knowledge and discoveries.  I have an enquiring mind.  And in all this I see no conflict whatsoever with my Christian faith, and indeed in contemplating my ability to wilfully exercise my mind in these matters I am fully aware of my God given freedom which nature alone can't provide.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20555 on: July 30, 2017, 09:59:13 AM »
I too never watch Big Brother or soap operas,
What about Big Father?

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20556 on: July 30, 2017, 10:00:18 AM »
[...] I am fully aware of my God given freedom which nature alone can't provide.
... he asserted.

Again.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20557 on: July 30, 2017, 10:16:08 AM »
This thread is to me a demonstration of the power indoctrination has over some people, Alan you probably don't think you have been indoctrinated, well that's how it works Alan, it has in your case pulled down the blinds and locked the shutters closed and destroyed your ability to reason on the subject.

I can immagine once you step away from your indoctrinated religion you become as rational as the next guy.

ippy

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20558 on: July 30, 2017, 10:31:19 AM »
I too never watch Big Brother or soap operas, and I too spend a lot of time contemplating the true nature of things.  I am fascinated by scientific knowledge and discoveries.  I have an enquiring mind.  And in all this I see no conflict whatsoever with my Christian faith, and indeed in contemplating my ability to wilfully exercise my mind in these matters I am fully aware of my God given freedom which nature alone can't provide.

If you really have an enquiring mind, you should be seriously questioning your brand of faith, which has done many people a lot of harm over the centuries. >:(

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20559 on: July 30, 2017, 10:32:52 AM »
Shaker #20,552

Well said - I absolutely agree.

Whenever the thread finally closes, I repeat my comment from way back - Do not let the last post be AB's!
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Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20560 on: July 30, 2017, 01:17:11 PM »
If you really have an enquiring mind, you should be seriously questioning your brand of faith, which has done many people a lot of harm over the centuries. >:(
The harm was done by those who tried to use Christian religion for selfish ends.
I dread to think of what our western society would be like without the positive benefits of our Christian heritage.

I just wish that more people will come to share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20561 on: July 30, 2017, 01:49:57 PM »
The harm was done by those who tried to use Christian religion for selfish ends.
I dread to think of what our western society would be like without the positive benefits of our Christian heritage.

I just wish that more people will come to share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love.

You ought to take that up with God then; clearly that is not what he wants.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20562 on: July 30, 2017, 01:51:23 PM »
The harm was done by those who tried to use Christian religion for selfish ends.
I dread to think of what our western society would be like without the positive benefits of our Christian heritage.

I just wish that more people will come to share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love.

May I ask how you view the way the RCC has covered up the sexual abuse committed by paedophile priests?

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20563 on: July 30, 2017, 02:26:06 PM »
You ought to take that up with God then; clearly that is not what he wants.
Good point!
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20564 on: July 30, 2017, 02:46:19 PM »
The harm was done by those who tried to use Christian religion for selfish ends.
No True Scotsman fallacy. You really can't help yourself, can you?
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I dread to think of what our western society would be like without the positive benefits of our Christian heritage.
Which are what, according to you?
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I just wish that more people will come to share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love.
Yes, we know that's your wish - you trot it out often enough.

Your efforts at peddling your wares here however don't seem to be achieving your desired objective, by your own admission: http://tinyurl.com/y9du4pjr

Perhaps you should find that time and space you complain about not having in order to present a finally non-fallacious case for your absurd claims.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 02:55:17 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20565 on: July 30, 2017, 02:55:55 PM »
The harm was done by those who tried to use Christian religion for selfish ends.
I dread to think of what our western society would be like without the positive benefits of our Christian heritage.

I just wish that more people will come to share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love.

Torridon has made the excellent point, reminiscent of divine hiddenness arguments, that God intends a universe where many people do not want to share in that.   And in some parts of the world,  that number seems to be growing.   Why would God want that? 
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20566 on: July 30, 2017, 03:05:51 PM »
The harm was done by those who tried to use Christian religion for selfish ends.
I dread to think of what our western society would be like without the positive benefits of our Christian heritage.

I just wish that more people will come to share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love.


The trouble with that Alan, it's only your belief that you share in the indescribable joy of knowing God's love, you can't know it and don't know it, nobody does, I wonder why you can't see this.

ippy

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20567 on: July 30, 2017, 03:47:17 PM »
You ought to take that up with God then; clearly that is not what he wants.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that He made Himself known to us through Jesus, who then suffered torture and death in order to deliver us from evil.  I know this is not the way you would expect God to make His love known - but you are not God.

I come that you may have life, and have it in abundance.  John 10:10
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20568 on: July 30, 2017, 03:49:29 PM »
You seem to be ignoring the fact that He made Himself known to us through Jesus, who then suffered torture and death in order to deliver us from evil.  I know this is not the way you would expect God to make His love known - but you are not God.

I come that you may have life, and have it in abundance.  John 10:10

That isn't a fact AB, only a belief!

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20569 on: July 30, 2017, 03:50:04 PM »
You seem to be ignoring the fact that He made Himself known to us through Jesus, who then suffered torture and death in order to deliver us from evil.  I know this is not the way you would expect God to make His love known - but you are not God.

I came that you may have life, and have it in abundance.  John 10:10

You're missing the point that the fact that many people are not interested in that, was intended by God, if he has made the universe as it is. 
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20570 on: July 30, 2017, 03:56:28 PM »
You're missing the point that the fact that many people are not interested in that, was intended by God, if he has made the universe as it is.

In making things as they are, He gives us the freedom to choose.  We are all free to either accept Him as our Saviour, or reject Him.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20571 on: July 30, 2017, 03:58:57 PM »
In making things as they are, He gives us the freedom to choose.  We are all free to either accept Him as our Saviour, or reject Him.

And God would presumably be aware that lots of people would not be interested in that, if he made them as they are, and lots of people would be animists or Muslims or nothing at all.   He's into diversity!
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20572 on: July 30, 2017, 04:02:47 PM »
You seem to be ignoring the fact that He made Himself known to us through Jesus
We are ignoring it "as a fact" since it isn't one.

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who then suffered torture and death in order to deliver us from evil.

What a dismal failure he was, then.

Some examples are obvious, of course, and the list as a whole extends almost indefinitely. Six million Jews who perished in the Shoah; between fifty-five and sixty million who perished in the conflict as a whole. Pol Pot's Cambodia - anywhere between 1.5 and 3 million there. So many died in Stalin's Russia that the true figure isn't known to this day. But to bring the argument closer to home, one of the most disturbing stories I've had the misfortune to read in some considerable time: http://tinyurl.com/y9e5dozc

So if it was Jesus's mission to deliver anybody from evil, he was clearly an abject failure.

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I know this is not the way you would expect God to make His love known - but you are not God.
Nor does anyone seem to be, including God.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 04:32:17 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20573 on: July 30, 2017, 05:20:23 PM »
AB,

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I have an enquiring mind.

No you haven’t – you have a closed mind. That’s what being “absolutely certain” about something requires.

Indeed you seem quite proud of the fact.

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You seem to be ignoring the fact that He made Himself known to us through Jesus…

That’s not a fact – it’s a personal faith belief you happen to have, but one that’s awaiting a definition, cogent logic, and evidence.

Until and unless you can provide any of those things, then you must expect to continue to be treated as probably flat wrong. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 05:27:50 PM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #20574 on: July 30, 2017, 05:28:31 PM »
Of course people would claim they have freedom to think but this does not mean that their thoughts are determined by previous events and that the freedom is an illusion.
In a physically deterministic universe, by definition everything must be entirely determined by previous physical events.  In this scenario there can be no form of freedom - just unavoidable consequences.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton