Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I have never ridiculed or disputed any of the scientific discoveries made by mankind.

Like the findings from neuroscience the point heavily towards consciousness as an emergent property of brains for example?

What I do dispute is the presumptions of what can be achieved by material science alone.

What presumption?

[Enki]

You will have another methodology to achieve stuff you claim then? You know the methodology you have been asked for before and consistently not given?


Oh and BTW in your belief system, what is happening here?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

Two half souls competing with each other perhaps? (I nearly said arseholes, by mistake)...

[torridon]

I have never ridiculed or disputed any of the scientific discoveries made by mankind.  What I do dispute is the presumptions of what can be achieved by material science alone.

So you think there might be another realm of reality beyond what is accessible to us wherein perhaps the illogical becomes logical and the incomprehensible becomes comprehensible.  If it is beyond investigation, how can you justify believing in it ?

[ippy]

So you think there might be another realm of reality beyond what is accessible to us wherein perhaps the illogical becomes logical and the incomprehensible becomes comprehensible.  If it is beyond investigation, how can you justify believing in it ?

You've just reminded me of a film I saw advertised on the London underground a while back, it was titled 'The Unknown', I can remember thinking how did they even know they were trying to make a film?

Yes it's the sort of thing I worry about, life can be so taxing.

ippy

[Alan Burns]

So you think there might be another realm of reality beyond what is accessible to us wherein perhaps the illogical becomes logical and the incomprehensible becomes comprehensible.  If it is beyond investigation, how can you justify believing in it ?

What lies beyond material science does not compete with the logic derived from material science - it complements it by providing the conscious perception and wilful interaction needed to fully investigate our material world.

[Alan Burns]

You will have another methodology to achieve stuff you claim then? You know the methodology you have been asked for before and consistently not given?


Oh and BTW in your belief system, what is happening here?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

Just one hypothetical scenario for you to ponder -
Some brain damaged people have been known to survive with less than half a functioning brain.
If one hemisphere of your own brain was removed and transplanted in another human body, what would happen to the original "you"?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

What lies beyond material science does not compete with the logic derived from material science…

That’s just incoherent. What are you even trying to say here? “The logic derived from material science” (the “material” is redundant there by the way) is just that science proceeds on the assumption that the universe is materialistic in character. It has nothing to say to any speculations you or anyone else may happen to have about the supposed non-material.

  - it complements it by providing the conscious perception and wilful interaction needed to fully investigate our material world.

Science doesn’t “provide” any of that. What it does provide however is working explanatory models for the observable characteristics of the universe. 

Anyways, about that definition, logic and evidence for “soul” you were finally going to produce…

[Nearly Sane]

Just one hypothetical scenario for you to ponder -
Some brain damaged people have been known to survive with less than half a functioning brain.
If one hemisphere of your own brain was removed and transplanted in another human body, what would happen to the original "you"?

Is there a reason why you evaded the question?

As to hour's since I don't posit the existence of a thing seorate to the body, there isn't an original me until that's proved. It would appear though as in regards to the confluence of events and processing up to theremival, what might've regarded as me at that point no longer exists, and there are are two physical bodies with a set of perceptions. Now how will that work in your belief system? 

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

Is there a reason why you evaded the question?

Yes - he's terrified of what the answer might be. That's why his supposedly "enquiring mind" has to lock his faith beliefs in a box marked "absolutely certain" and then throw away the key.

Ironically too, he thinks his personal truth about that "sets him free".   

[Alan Burns]

AB,

Like the findings from neuroscience the point heavily towards consciousness as an emergent property of brains for example?

I would assume the main reason for the expression "heavily point towards" is because there is nothing else apparent in the physical brain, but we have yet to discover a physical mechanism for generating conscious awareness

What presumption?

see above

[Alan Burns]

AB,

That’s just incoherent. What are you even trying to say here? “The logic derived from material science” (the “material” is redundant there by the way) is just that science proceeds on the assumption that the universe is materialistic in character. It has nothing to say to any speculations you or anyone else may happen to have about the supposed non-material.

Science doesn’t “provide” any of that. What it does provide however is working explanatory models for the observable characteristics of the universe. 

Anyways, about that definition, logic and evidence for “soul” you were finally going to produce…

But science would provide nothing at all without the conscious awareness and wilful interaction capabilities of human beings.  Science does not discover itself - it needs our God given qualities of the human soul.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I would assume the main reason for the expression "heavily point towards" is because there is nothing else apparent in the physical brain, but we have yet to discover a physical mechanism for generating conscious awareness

Then, as ever, you assume wrongly. I used it because, while there's substantial evidence from neuroscience (and other disciplines incidentally) and cogent logic for consciousness as an emergent property of brains, the model is incomplete. As it's currently the best-supported explanation we have though, it's the generally accepted working paradigm.

see above

So again, what presumption?

[Gordon]

I would assume the main reason for the expression "heavily point towards" is because there is nothing else apparent in the physical brain, but we have yet to discover a physical mechanism for generating conscious awarenesssee above

So we keep looking: but since people with non-functioning brains tend to be unaware of anything that is probably an important clue, so that whatever the fine detail is of consciousness, having a functioning brain is a starter for 10 (in the immortal words of St Bamber). 

[Alan Burns]

Is there a reason why you evaded the question?

As to hour's since I don't posit the existence of a thing seorate to the body, there isn't an original me until that's proved. It would appear though as in regards to the confluence of events and processing up to theremival, what might've regarded as me at that point no longer exists, and there are are two physical bodies with a set of perceptions. Now how will that work in your belief system?

I was just trying to illustrate how bizarre it would be if the "you" within you was entirely defined by the physical brain.  Every bit of the brain is just a replaceable piece of material - so if the whole lot gets replaced, where will you be?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

But science would provide nothing at all without the conscious awareness and wilful interaction capabilities of human beings.

Erm, “science” is a human endeavour – yes. So?

Science does not discover itself -…

You’re terribly confused. “Science” is just a set of tools and methods we use to create provisional explanatory models for the aspects of the universe we observe.

…it needs our God given qualities of the human soul.

No, you’re wrong about that. What it actually needs is Colin the Chief of the Leprechauns to wave his four-sided triangle over the test tubes.

Do you see now what happens when each of us attempt un-defined, logically incoherent, un-evidenced assertions?

[Alan Burns]

So we keep looking: but since people with non-functioning brains tend to be unaware of anything that is probably an important clue, so that whatever the fine detail is of consciousness, having a functioning brain is a starter for 10 (in the immortal words of St Bamber).

The main function of the brain is to provide a window into this physical world for the human soul.  Without the window, the soul will no longer be capable of wilful interaction or conscious perception.

[Gordon]

The main function of the brain is to provide a window into this physical world for the human soul.

So you keep asserting but can't demonstrate: this soul is just your personal hook to hang your personal faith on.

Without the window, the soul will no longer be capable of wilful interaction or conscious perception.

Begging the question again, Alan: you seem utterly mired in fallacies.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

The main function of the brain is to provide a window into this physical world for the human soul.  Without the window, the soul will no longer be capable of wilful interaction or conscious perception.

Would that be the same "soul" you're finally just about to get around to defining, providing some cogent logic for and then demonstrating to be a fact with some actual evidence?

Can't wait!

PS I just asked you: "Do you see now what happens when each of us attempt un-defined, logically incoherent, un-evidenced assertions?"

Should I take it then that the answer is "no"?

[Nearly Sane]

I was just trying to illustrate how bizarre it would be if the "you" within you was entirely defined by the physical brain.  Every bit of the brain is just a replaceable piece of material - so if the whole lot gets replaced, where will you be?

I see you evaded answering again and then didn't read my answer to your question. If you don't have the common courtesy to engage in discussion by doing either of this, and this isn't the first time you have shown, this or even the tenth, it really defeats any point of discussion.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

I see you evaded answering again and then didn't read my answer to your question. If you don't have the common courtesy to engage in discussion by doing either of this, and this isn't the first time you have shown, this or even the tenth, it really defeats any point of discussion.

What makes you think Alan "Crashes and" Burns has any interest in discussing anything?

[Shaker]

NS,

What makes you think Alan "Crashes and" Burns has any interest in discussing anything?

Oh, I say ... good work that man

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Oh, I say ... good work that man

Another frank and appreciative gem from Sha ''Oh, very good Sir'' Ker.

[Sebastian Toe]

The main function of the brain is to provide a window into this physical world for the human soul.  Without the window, the soul will no longer be capable of wilful interaction or conscious perception.

...and when you die and your brain is a lump of rotten matter, what conscious perception will you have then?
Without your physical brain with its physical memories i.e. that what makes and defines you as you, what then?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Another frank and appreciative gem from Sha ''Oh, very good Sir'' Ker.

Why I wonder are so many of God's little helpers specially given the keys to eternal happiness such miserable gits in real life?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Why I wonder are so many of God's little helpers specially given the keys to eternal happiness such miserable gits in real life?

I'm sorry Blue ''tense, strain and follow through'' Hillside.....I don't know what you mean.