Searching for GOD...

[Maeght]

Never understood that. If Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven to sit with God how is that giving his son? How is becoming incarnate on earth for a short time, suffering fora short period andthen dying before going back to heaven be a sign of love? Don't get it.

Can you have another go at explaining how that shows God's love please Alan.

[SusanDoris]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I see this earth as a battleground between good and evil, and in any battle there will inevitably be casualties.  I do not see the whole picture - no one does.  But the evidence for God's love lies primarily in the life of Jesus:
John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…

How, then, do you think god is going to save the world, i.e. this planet, from its inevitable destruction when the sun becomes a supernova?
I'll take Prof Brian Cox's information on the Solar System over ideas of God any day.

[torridon]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I see this earth as a battleground between good and evil, and in any battle there will inevitably be casualties....

and as mentioned in innumerable other previous posts, just because you see it that way does not make it so, and it does not make it rational in anybody else'e eyes.  A god that creates evil is evil, a god that continues to tolerate evil is evil.  This is not rocket science, you just need to remove those massive bias filters to see and think clearly.

[torridon]

I have tried throughout this thread to show the evidence for the human soul, and in doing so, non believers such as Torridon have had to admit that without the spiritual interaction from the soul, we are entirely driven by uncontrollable chains of physical cause and effect which render any concept of freedom to choose or drive our own thoughts to be an illusion.

And I maintain that the evidence for us all to exercise our freedom lies in the postings on this forum.

You haven't presented any evidence for souls, human or otherwise.  All we get from you is bald assertions and incredulity; these things are not evidence, they are bald assertions and incredulity.  Anybody can do that.

[floo]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I see this earth as a battleground between good and evil, and in any battle there will inevitably be casualties.  I do not see the whole picture - no one does.  But the evidence for God's love lies primarily in the life of Jesus:
John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…

So it is an act of love to create a child to have it crucified, is it?

[ippy]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I see this earth as a battleground between good and evil, and in any battle there will inevitably be casualties.  I do not see the whole picture - no one does.  But the evidence for God's love lies primarily in the life of Jesus:
John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…

"As I mentioned in a previous post, I see this earth as a battleground between good and evil, and in any battle there will inevitably be casualties".

Come over to the good side then Alan, where we do our best to let rationality rule and dispense with superstition based nonsense.

By the way have you seen the latest British Social Attitudes Survey where it confirms the continuing trend over many years that has been speeding up some what to the highest ever result of 53% now the overall numbers of Brit's that are non-religious and 58% that's just in Scotland; looks like you and yours are being left behind Alan.

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

By the way have you seen the latest British Social Attitudes Survey where it confirms the continuing trend over many years that has been speeding up some what to the highest ever result of 53% now the overall numbers of Brit's that are non-religious and 58% that's just in Scotland; looks like you and yours are being left behind Alan.

ippy

Argumentum ad populum?

[Gordon]

Argumentum ad populum?

Nope.

Just the results of a survey.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Nope.

Just the results of a survey.

Yes...................... If one ignores the context in which they were reported and to whom they were reported namely Ippy's intended evangelism of Alan to the cause of so called Rationalism.

If you are alternatively suggesting that these results are of limited significance I can go along with that.

[Gordon]

Yes...................... If one ignores the context in which they were reported and to whom they were reported namely Ippy's intended evangelism of Alan to the cause of so called Rationalism.

If you are alternatively suggesting that these results are of limited significance I can go along with that.

I'm not suggesting anything, so put away the straw.

This survey shows the continued reduction in religiosity in Scotland, which is what ippy noted, and pointing this out hardly seems like evangelising. I see ippy is also a recipient of one of your straw men.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So it is an act of love to create a child to have it crucified, is it?

Selective employment of sentimentality and playing on of emotion and misunderstanding of the notion of the trinity.
Jesus was 32 or thereabouts when he decided to make his sacrifice.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm not suggesting anything, so put away the straw.

Sorry but you did say Ippy was just presenting survey evidence.......Really? For what purpose? If he just did it for no particular reason than that is unreasonable.

So it just being data is not credible Gordon.

Plus Ippy made a plea to come over to the side of the Good, i.e his own beliefs. How is that different from evangelism, the sharing of Good news.

[Alan Burns]

How, then, do you think god is going to save the world, i.e. this planet, from its inevitable destruction when the sun becomes a supernova?
I'll take Prof Brian Cox's information on the Solar System over ideas of God any day.

Nothing material will survive.  That is a certainty.
But I have spent a lot of time and effort to show that we are spiritual beings controlling a complex biological machine.  Take away the machine and you are left with your spiritual awareness which may no longer be linked to this universe.  And in its true nature it may not experience time as we know it, because time is a property of this universe.

[Alan Burns]

Can you have another go at explaining how that shows God's love please Alan.

Dear Maeght,

You may not know me,
but I know everything about you.
Psalm 139:1
I know when you sit down and when you rise up.
Psalm 139:2
I am familiar with all your ways.
Psalm 139:3
Even the very hairs on your head are numbered.
Matthew 10:29-31
For you were made in my image.
Genesis 1:27
In me you live and move and have your being.
Acts 17:28
For you are my offspring.
Acts 17:28
I knew you even before you were conceived.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
I chose you when I planned creation.
Ephesians 1:11-12
You were not a mistake,
for all your days are written in my book.
Psalm 139:15-16
I determined the exact time of your birth
and where you would live.
Acts 17:26
You are fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139:14
I knit you together in your mother's womb.
Psalm 139:13
And brought you forth on the day you were born.
Psalm 71:6
I have been misrepresented
by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44
I am not distant and angry,
but am the complete expression of love.
1 John 4:16
And it is my desire to lavish my love on you.
1 John 3:1
Simply because you are my child
and I am your Father.
1 John 3:1
I offer you more than your earthly father ever could.
Matthew 7:11
For I am the perfect father.
Matthew 5:48
Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand.
James 1:17
For I am your provider and I meet all your needs.
Matthew 6:31-33
My plan for your future has always been filled with hope.
Jeremiah 29:11
Because I love you with an everlasting love.
Jeremiah 31:3
My thoughts toward you are countless
as the sand on the seashore.
Psalms 139:17-18
And I rejoice over you with singing.
Zephaniah 3:17
I will never stop doing good to you.
Jeremiah 32:40
For you are my treasured possession.
Exodus 19:5
I desire to establish you
with all my heart and all my soul.
Jeremiah 32:41
And I want to show you great and marvelous things.
Jeremiah 33:3
If you seek me with all your heart,
you will find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29
Delight in me and I will give you
the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4
For it is I who gave you those desires.
Philippians 2:13
I am able to do more for you
than you could possibly imagine.
Ephesians 3:20
For I am your greatest encourager.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
I am also the Father who comforts you
in all your troubles.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
When you are brokenhearted,
I am close to you.
Psalm 34:18
As a shepherd carries a lamb,
I have carried you close to my heart.
Isaiah 40:11
One day I will wipe away
every tear from your eyes.
Revelation 21:3-4
And I'll take away all the pain
you have suffered on this earth.
Revelation 21:3-4
I am your Father, and I love you

[floo]

Dear Maeght,

You may not know me,
but I know everything about you.
Psalm 139:1
I know when you sit down and when you rise up.
Psalm 139:2
I am familiar with all your ways.
Psalm 139:3
Even the very hairs on your head are numbered.
Matthew 10:29-31
For you were made in my image.
Genesis 1:27
In me you live and move and have your being.
Acts 17:28
For you are my offspring.
Acts 17:28
I knew you even before you were conceived.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
I chose you when I planned creation.
Ephesians 1:11-12
You were not a mistake,
for all your days are written in my book.
Psalm 139:15-16
I determined the exact time of your birth
and where you would live.
Acts 17:26
You are fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139:14
I knit you together in your mother's womb.
Psalm 139:13
And brought you forth on the day you were born.
Psalm 71:6
I have been misrepresented
by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44
I am not distant and angry,
but am the complete expression of love.
1 John 4:16
And it is my desire to lavish my love on you.
1 John 3:1
Simply because you are my child
and I am your Father.
1 John 3:1
I offer you more than your earthly father ever could.
Matthew 7:11
For I am the perfect father.
Matthew 5:48
Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand.
James 1:17
For I am your provider and I meet all your needs.
Matthew 6:31-33
My plan for your future has always been filled with hope.
Jeremiah 29:11
Because I love you with an everlasting love.
Jeremiah 31:3
My thoughts toward you are countless
as the sand on the seashore.
Psalms 139:17-18
And I rejoice over you with singing.
Zephaniah 3:17
I will never stop doing good to you.
Jeremiah 32:40
For you are my treasured possession.
Exodus 19:5
I desire to establish you
with all my heart and all my soul.
Jeremiah 32:41
And I want to show you great and marvelous things.
Jeremiah 33:3
If you seek me with all your heart,
you will find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29
Delight in me and I will give you
the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4
For it is I who gave you those desires.
Philippians 2:13
I am able to do more for you
than you could possibly imagine.
Ephesians 3:20
For I am your greatest encourager.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
I am also the Father who comforts you
in all your troubles.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
When you are brokenhearted,
I am close to you.
Psalm 34:18
As a shepherd carries a lamb,
I have carried you close to my heart.
Isaiah 40:11
One day I will wipe away
every tear from your eyes.
Revelation 21:3-4
And I'll take away all the pain
you have suffered on this earth.
Revelation 21:3-4
I am your Father, and I love you

Words are not deeds. The deeds attributed to god have nothing to do with love!

[ekim]

That'll teach you mate! 

[Nearly Sane]

And yet, Alan couldn't even do Maeght the courtesy of actually reading Maeght's post.

[Shaker]

I have spent a lot of time and effort to show that we are spiritual beings controlling a complex biological machine.

You've spent a lot of time and effort asserting your own personal belief system (almost invariably on the back of practically every logical fallacy known to man) with the stated aim - by your own admission - of converting people to your way of that-thing-which-isn't-thinking.

I would ask how successful in this endeavour you personally think you've been, but we all know that that's one of the numerous questions you'll blithely pass over in silence as you prepare your next round of fallacy

[Gordon]

Alan

I won't quote your #21739 given its excessive length but I'm wondering why you think a series of biblical quotes (most of which are little more than assertions dressed up as twee deepities) is in any sense informative beyond just replicating the text.

Seems like you're now trying a fallacious argument from authority.

[Maeght]

Dear Maeght,

You may not know me,
but I know everything about you.
Psalm 139:1
I know when you sit down and when you rise up.
Psalm 139:2
I am familiar with all your ways.
Psalm 139:3
Even the very hairs on your head are numbered.
Matthew 10:29-31
For you were made in my image.
Genesis 1:27
In me you live and move and have your being.
Acts 17:28
For you are my offspring.
Acts 17:28
I knew you even before you were conceived.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
I chose you when I planned creation.
Ephesians 1:11-12
You were not a mistake,
for all your days are written in my book.
Psalm 139:15-16
I determined the exact time of your birth
and where you would live.
Acts 17:26
You are fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139:14
I knit you together in your mother's womb.
Psalm 139:13
And brought you forth on the day you were born.
Psalm 71:6
I have been misrepresented
by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44
I am not distant and angry,
but am the complete expression of love.
1 John 4:16
And it is my desire to lavish my love on you.
1 John 3:1
Simply because you are my child
and I am your Father.
1 John 3:1
I offer you more than your earthly father ever could.
Matthew 7:11
For I am the perfect father.
Matthew 5:48
Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand.
James 1:17
For I am your provider and I meet all your needs.
Matthew 6:31-33
My plan for your future has always been filled with hope.
Jeremiah 29:11
Because I love you with an everlasting love.
Jeremiah 31:3
My thoughts toward you are countless
as the sand on the seashore.
Psalms 139:17-18
And I rejoice over you with singing.
Zephaniah 3:17
I will never stop doing good to you.
Jeremiah 32:40
For you are my treasured possession.
Exodus 19:5
I desire to establish you
with all my heart and all my soul.
Jeremiah 32:41
And I want to show you great and marvelous things.
Jeremiah 33:3
If you seek me with all your heart,
you will find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29
Delight in me and I will give you
the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4
For it is I who gave you those desires.
Philippians 2:13
I am able to do more for you
than you could possibly imagine.
Ephesians 3:20
For I am your greatest encourager.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
I am also the Father who comforts you
in all your troubles.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
When you are brokenhearted,
I am close to you.
Psalm 34:18
As a shepherd carries a lamb,
I have carried you close to my heart.
Isaiah 40:11
One day I will wipe away
every tear from your eyes.
Revelation 21:3-4
And I'll take away all the pain
you have suffered on this earth.
Revelation 21:3-4
I am your Father, and I love you

I can't see where you have answered my point. Can you explain please or have another try?

[Alan Burns]

You've spent a lot of time and effort asserting your own personal belief system (almost invariably on the back of practically every logical fallacy known to man) with the stated aim - by your own admission - of converting people to your way of that-thing-which-isn't-thinking.

I would ask how successful in this endeavour you personally think you've been, but we all know that that's one of the numerous questions you'll blithely pass over in silence as you prepare your next round of fallacy

This thread gets about a thousand views per day, so I would hope that some of these viewers can see the shallow arguments of non believers which reduce human beings to mere biological machines driven entirely by the uncontrollable forces of nature.

[ippy]

Sorry but you did say Ippy was just presenting survey evidence.......Really? For what purpose? If he just did it for no particular reason than that is unreasonable.

So it just being data is not credible Gordon.

Plus Ippy made a plea to come over to the side of the Good, i.e his own beliefs. How is that different from evangelism, the sharing of Good news.

For some time now Vlad your posts, more or less, only amount to hands over the eyes fingers, in the ears and la la la la la la la.

It doesn't matter to me how many times you do the fingers, eyes and la ls's, it's more the damaging effect it's having on you where you never seem to address directly anything that's put to you, I know my last post didn't ask anything of you but you managed to conjure up a little bit of straw instead of a sensible repost.

ippy   

[ippy]

This thread gets about a thousand views per day, so I would hope that some of these viewers can see the shallow arguments of non believers which reduce human beings to mere biological machines driven entirely by the uncontrollable forces of nature.

Sorry Alan, which bits of your many posts are deep? As opposed to these shallow non-religious arguments.

I've yet to see any of your posts backed up with anything realistic which in turn would begin to make them interesting and worthy of discussion.

ippy   

[Nearly Sane]

This thread gets about a thousand views per day, so I would hope that some of these viewers can see the shallow arguments of non believers which reduce human beings to mere biological machines driven entirely by the uncontrollable forces of nature.

Given your posts give frequent evidence that you don't have the courtesy to read what you reply to (see your recent replies to Maeght, or your misrepresentation of torridon yesterday) how would you even begin to have a position on the validity of their arguments?

[Alan Burns]

Alan

I won't quote your #21739 given its excessive length but I'm wondering why you think a series of biblical quotes (most of which are little more than assertions dressed up as twee deepities) is in any sense informative beyond just replicating the text.

Seems like you're now trying a fallacious argument from authority.

I can offer no better authority than the Word of God