Searching for GOD...

[ippy]

So I rejoice in the reality of my God given freedom which enables me to freely witness to God's existence.  How could I possibly do this if all my brain activity is entirely pre determined by physical chains of cause and effect over which I have no control?

You're surrendering any intellect you have left to the irrational Alan, you're doing the equivalent of putting your feet up and relaxing no more need to rationalise religion any more, just assert it's all true, easy, looks a pretty brain dead way to go to me.

No small wonder you're relaxed and feel contented about it, you've given up, decided to be a lazy non-thinker. 

ippy

[ippy]

Shaker #21,757

What saddens me is that his children and grandchild, apart from hundreds of thousands of other children, are being indoctrinated into these beliefs.

This is the part of these unsupported beliefs that annoys me the most, they, religionists can't keep their hands off of children's minds and bodies, at least the authorities have the laws behind them where bodily abuse is concerned, it's a pity there seems to be no enforceable way of stopping the indoctrination of the very young and vulnerable minds.

Getting religion out of the infant schools would be a start, where religion should only be mentioned when absolutely necessary to make sense out of, say a history lesson and a few other things of a similar ilk.

ippy

[SusanDoris]

AB

What is your answer to wigginhall's question: What is the non-physical?

[Alan Burns]

AB

What is your answer to wigginhall's question: What is the non-physical?

Commonly described as "spiritual":
from the online dictionary:

adjective: spiritual

    1.
    relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

[Alan Burns]

Have you considered that your observations, which seem conclusive to you might be in error, and you are barking up the wrong tree?

My Christian faith is the only tree which makes sense to me.

[Alan Burns]

If there is something that is non-physical, meaning it is undetectable, then there can be no evidence base justifying its existence and there is no way that it could impact on our lives. 'undetectable' in this sense equates to 'nothing' for all practical purposes, so your sentence could be written as :

Such tools are incapable of detecting nothing, but this does not rule out the existence of nothing.  And nothing may well be the facilitator of our freedom to choose, making it a reality rather than an illusion

No - you can't assume that something undetectable by human means is nothing.  A better substitution is the word spirituality:
Such tools are incapable of detecting spirituality, but this does not rule out the existence of spirituality.  And spirituality may well be the facilitator of our freedom to choose, making it a reality rather than an illusion

And the evidence for the existence of spirituality is your ability to perceive and consciously interact with your own existence.

[Shaker]

the evidence for the existence of spirituality is your ability to perceive and consciously interact with your own existence.

That's evidence of the existence of a functioning brain.

Not the most widely shared commodity, unfortunately.

[Alan Burns]

That's evidence of the existence of a functioning brain.

Evidence for a functioning brain driven by conscious interaction as opposed to pre defined physical determinism.

[Gordon]

And the evidence for the existence of spirituality is your ability to perceive and consciously interact with your own existence.

That is just your biology doing what it does: it might feel 'spiritual' (what ever that means), but again that is just your biology.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

This is the part of these unsupported beliefs that annoys me the most, they, religionists can't keep their hands off of children's minds and bodies, at least the authorities have the laws behind them where bodily abuse is concerned, it's a pity there seems to be no enforceable way of stopping the indoctrination of the very young and vulnerable minds.

Getting religion out of the infant schools would be a start, where religion should only be mentioned when absolutely necessary to make sense out of, say a history lesson and a few other things of a similar ilk.

ippy

There are already laws in place to protect children from mental or emotional abuse and these are enforceable. If there is evidence of abuse the authorities will act. If there are just your unsupported beliefs that abuse has taken place, presumably you are happy that the authorities don't take your beliefs seriously, and that they do not act if you try to "abuse" or indoctrinate children with these unsupported beliefs that you have about abuse.

[wigginhall]

I thought that teachers were already prohibited from teaching that religion X is true?  The big difference being between teaching about X and teaching that X is correct.

Well, I don't know enough about faith schools, and how far this leaks out.   I suppose the mere fact of a faith school is sort of saying that the faith is a big deal.   Also, there were schools actually teaching creationism, which I think Blair condoned.   Bizarre. 

[Maeght]

Evidence for a functioning brain driven by conscious interaction as opposed to pre defined physical determinism.

Nope.

[SusanDoris]

No - you can't assume that something undetectable by human means is nothing.  A better substitution is the word spirituality:
Such tools are incapable of detecting spirituality, but this does not rule out the existence of spirituality.  And spirituality may well be the facilitator of our freedom to choose, making it a reality rather than an illusion

And the evidence for the existence of spirituality is your ability to perceive and consciously interact with your own existence.

I do not know how you can read what you have written here and fail completely to see how totally empty of substance it is. Spirituality is a WORD to describe an aspect of a totally integrated person. It is an important aspect but a totally integrated ASPECT, not a separate thing.  Spirituality is 100% abstract noun.

[Maeght]

Alan, any comment on how a short term loan counts as 'giving'?

[wigginhall]

Well, that is a doozie from AB - 'you can't assume that something undetectable by human means is nothing'.   What a corker.   It actually removes all constraints from any investigation, since, for example,  I can maintain that I am experiencing Venusian mermaids, and doncha know, they are undetectable to ordinary mortals, but my special soul-death-ray-power, can detect them, and that's the evidence for their existence.   This is fun.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I thought that teachers were already prohibited from teaching that religion X is true?  The big difference being between teaching about X and teaching that X is correct.

Well, I don't know enough about faith schools, and how far this leaks out.   I suppose the mere fact of a faith school is sort of saying that the faith is a big deal.   Also, there were schools actually teaching creationism, which I think Blair condoned.   Bizarre.

Yes, I think most schools teach children about a number of religions in R.E. lessons as well as about various ethical beliefs.  Mine were educated about people's different beliefs I think partly in order to be able to interact with people from a position of knowledge as that leads to less friction caused by ignorance, which is always useful when operating in a diverse school community. The school probably leans towards teaching a cultural Christian perspective on moral / ethical beliefs - not surprisingly given the history of this country.

[Nearly Sane]

I do not know how you can read what you have written here and fail completely to see how totally empty of substance it is. Spirituality is a WORD to describe an aspect of a totally integrated person. It is an important aspect but a totally integrated ASPECT, not a separate thing.  Spirituality is 100% abstract noun.

What in the name of  Simon Cowell's left earlobe is a 'totally integrated person'? And what is 'spirituality' that is integrated by this person? And why is it 'important', and what is your evidence for these claims?

[BeRational]

Well, that is a doozie from AB - 'you can't assume that something undetectable by human means is nothing'.   What a corker.   It actually removes all constraints from any investigation, since, for example,  I can maintain that I am experiencing Venusian mermaids, and doncha know, they are undetectable to ordinary mortals, but my special soul-death-ray-power, can detect them, and that's the evidence for their existence.   This is fun.

What are they wearing?

[Alan Burns]

Alan, any comment on how a short term loan counts as 'giving'?

Just look at the fruits which come from what you call a "short term loan" and see what can be received.

[Maeght]

Just look at the fruits which come from what you call a "short term loan" and see what can be received.

That's not an answer. The phrase is that God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son, but shouldn't it be 'leant' rather than gave. What the fruits are or not is irrelevant.

[Alan Burns]

The brain is an incredible organ, the depths of its abilities may not as yet have been plumbed.

And this incredible organ with all its mysterious complexity is automatically generated from the blueprint information contained in a microscopic molecule.

I just wondered if any of the non believers ever doubt the ability of a blind, aimless evolutionary process to produce such an amazingly complex and meaningful entity.

 

[Maeght]

And this incredible organ with all its mysterious complexity is automatically generated from the blueprint information contained in a microscopic molecule.

I just wondered if any of the non believers ever doubt the ability of a blind, aimless evolutionary process to produce such an amazingly complex and meaningful entity.

The process of evolution is amazing. Simple but amazing.

[floo]

And this incredible organ with all its mysterious complexity is automatically generated from the blueprint information contained in a microscopic molecule.

I just wondered if any of the non believers ever doubt the ability of a blind, aimless evolutionary process to produce such an amazingly complex and meaningful entity.

The evolutionary process is remarkable, when eventually science has discovered how it all came about, I doubt god had anything to do with it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The process of evolution is amazing. Simple but amazing.

How amazing? 1, 4, 8.5 , 1 000 000?

[Shaker]

And this incredible organ with all its mysterious complexity is automatically generated from the blueprint information contained in a microscopic molecule.

I just wondered if any of the non believers ever doubt the ability of a blind, aimless evolutionary process to produce such an amazingly complex and meaningful entity.

No, since we tend to be the ones who understand the evidence as to how it works.

Your lot ... not so much. Which is inexcusable given the sheer volume of easily-available books which explain and describe the process; given that, I guess it can only be filed under the heading of wilful ignorance.