Searching for GOD...

[ippy]

in what way can we take action that isn't determined or random?

I'll leave that all to you N S just in case I forget to dot an i or cross a tee.

Regards ippy.

[Nearly Sane]

I'll leave that all to you N S just in case I forget to dot an i or cross a tee.

Regards ippy.

So that's you and Alan Burns who make the same assertion and then can't answer any challenge.

[Alan Burns]

So that's you and Alan Burns who make the same assertion and then can't answer any challenge.

Just to put the record straight, I have answered this.
There is no question that all your thoughts, words and actions are determined.
They are determined by you.
So the big question is, (in Pete Townsend's famous words):

Who are You?

[Nearly Sane]

Just to put the record straight, I have answered this.
There is no question that all your thoughts, words and actions are determined.
They are determined by you.
So the big question is, (in Pete Townsend's famous words):

Who are You?

Then there is no free will because it's all determined. You have already made clear that beliefs cannot be chosen, and given that any decision is a belief that we should do it, then there is no choice.


As to your big question, yet more begging the question in that you assume the existence of a single entity without establishing it.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

Then there is no free will because it's all determined. You have already made clear that beliefs cannot be chosen, and given that any decision is a belief that we should do it, then there is no choice.

As to your big question, yet more begging the question in that you assume the existence of a single entity without establishing it.

Quite, but I thought his schtick to explain away the impression of "free" will was to insert a tiny little man called "soul" that pulls the levers but that itself in some entirely unexplained fashion is neither deterministic nor random. Or defined even vaguely. Or supported by any evidence whatsoever. Or something.   

[ippy]

So that's you and Alan Burns who make the same assertion and then can't answer any challenge.

Well yes and no I could answer you N S, I'm not so much evading, more I can't be bothered with the nit picking

Why don't you open up a 'correct usage of written English debate thread', I'm sure I've got that lot wrong but I'm sure you can see what it is I'm getting at, however I'm sure you will somehow find something negative to say in return.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

Well yes and no I could answer you N S, I'm not so much evading, more I can't be bothered with the nit picking

Why don't you open up a 'correct usage of written English debate thread', I'm sure I've got that lot wrong but I'm sure you can see what it is I'm getting at, however I'm sure you will somehow find something negative to say in return.

ippy

Because I am not picking you up on your English but your lack of logic in claiming that free will exists because you say it does, and just as Akan not showing how it can be free in any sense.

[ippy]

Because I am not picking you up on your English but your lack of logic in claiming that free will exists because you say it does, and just as Akan not showing how it can be free in any sense.

I see you're off on one of your rambles again N S, good luck.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

I see you're off on one of your rambles again N S, good luck.

ippy

And an ad hominem to continue your evasion.

[ippy]

And an ad hominem to continue your evasion.

I'm really surprised by your most uncharacteristic response N S.

ippy

[torridon]

Just to put the record straight, I have answered this.
There is no question that all your thoughts, words and actions are determined.
They are determined by you.
So the big question is, (in Pete Townsend's famous words):

Who are You?

That just evades the question you've been evading for over two years on here now.  Saying that YOU determines it doesn't illustrate how a YOU can do it in a way that is neither random nor determined.  You're a programmer; just take a pen and paper and see if you can write an algorithm, a chain of logic, that yields an outcome of its inputs which is not determined by its inputs and is not random either.  That which cannot be done, because it is a logical impossibility, cannot be done by a computer, or by a YOU, or by a soul.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm really surprised by your most uncharacteristic response N S.

ippy

And no surprise here, further evasion.

So once again in what way do you think any will can be free?

[ippy]

And no surprise here, further evasion.

So once again in what way do you think any will can be free?

It's my free will to not answer anything demanded or asked of me, now over to you for your last word N S.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

It's my free will to not answer anything demanded or asked of me, now over to you for your last word N S.

ippy

And it's your achievement that you have continued to evade.

[Shaker]

Just to put the record straight, I have answered this.
There is no question that all your thoughts, words and actions are determined.
They are determined by you.
So the big question is, (in Pete Townsend's famous words):

Who are You?

Shaker's Law vindicated once again.

[Sebastian Toe]

Just to put the record straight, I have answered this.
There is no question that all your thoughts, words and actions are determined.
They are determined by you.
So the big question is, (in Pete Townsend's famous words):

Who are You?

They are determined by you, i.e. your subconscious.

So the answer my friend is blowin in the wind (Bob Dylan);
I am I said......... I am said I. (Neil Diamond)

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Even if AB has decided not to post on this thread, I think continued vigilance is required, in order to make sure he does not have the last word!

Which just goes to show that there is one fundamental thing missing from your side ... TRUTH

Kinds of says it all about the inherent bias. Worst still, why does someone have a vested interest in trying to obstruct a path that others are more than free to investigate themselves and reach their own conclusion? It speaks volumes of the utter lack of confidence you have in your own position SusanDoris.

Try building on a firm foundation and you might get somewhere. Blind belief is not going to get you anywhere!

[Gordon]

Which just goes to show that there is one fundamental thing missing from your side ... TRUTH

Which is what exactly?

Try building on a firm foundation and you might get somewhere.

Such as?

Blind belief is not going to get you anywhere!

Is that you Pot? Let me introduce to Mr Kettle!

[floo]

Which just goes to show that there is one fundamental thing missing from your side ... TRUTH

Kinds of says it all about the inherent bias. Worst still, why does someone have a vested interest in trying to obstruct a path that others are more than free to investigate themselves and reach their own conclusion? It speaks volumes of the utter lack of confidence you have in your own position SusanDoris.

Try building on a firm foundation and you might get somewhere. Blind belief is not going to get you anywhere!

And you have the 'TRUTH' have you? All you have is a belief, NO factual evidence.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

And you have the 'TRUTH' have you? All you have is a belief, NO factual evidence.

And is this your belief, or do you have factual evidence to back it up? I wouldn't want you to be a hypocrite!

[BeRational]

And is this your belief, or do you have factual evidence to back it up? I wouldn't want you to be a hypocrite!

Demonstrate you have evidence of the "truth"

Truth about what?

[SusanDoris]

Which just goes to show that there is one fundamental thing missing from your side ... TRUTH

And what "truth" do you think you have that atheists don't and, more importantly, whichever "truth" it is, where is it backed up by objective research and factual information?

Kinds of says it all about the inherent bias.

Am I to understand from this that you think you do not have any bias about the truths of your  faith beliefs?

Worst still, why does someone have a vested interest in trying to obstruct a path that others are more than free to investigate themselves and reach their own conclusion?

Explain what you mean by a 'vested interest'.

It speaks volumes of the utter lack of confidence you have in your own position SusanDoris.

LOL! Well, your posts certainly speak volumes about you!

Try building on a firm foundation and you might get somewhere.

The scientific method and the increasing volume of verified results are a good foundation.

Blind belief is not going to get you anywhere!

Well, I'm blind*, but my beliefs are all based on objective evidence! Blind, faith belief is not for me!

*Just some peripheral vision on right hand side of right eye

[Nearly Sane]

And what "truth" do you think you have that atheists don't and, more importantly, whichever "truth" it is, where is it backed up by objective research and factual information?Am I to understand from this that you think you do not have any bias about the truths of your  faith beliefs?Explain what you mean by a 'vested interest'.LOL! Well, your posts certainly speak volumes about you!The scientific method and the increasing volume of verified results are a good foundation.Well, I'm blind*, but my beliefs are all based on objective evidence! Blind, faith belief is not for me!

*Just some peripheral vision on right hand side of right eye

First applause, second ooft! But you forget SusanDoris, SotS wasn't talking about normal 'truth' but emboldened capitalised TRUTH. Makes all the difference.

[SusanDoris]

First applause, second ooft! But you forget SusanDoris, SotS wasn't talking about normal 'truth' but emboldened capitalised TRUTH. Makes all the difference.

Thank you; and my goodness, how remiss of me, I should have realised it was the capitalised sort.

[Nearly Sane]

Thank you; and my goodness, how remiss of me, I should have realised it was the capitalised sort.

You need to pause your screen reader, and change the voice into some really deep portentous voice, James Earl Jones perhaps. And get it done with plenty of reverb and maybe a thunderclap to get the proper TRUTH effect