Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

The insertion of omnibenevolent in the omnis is a bit of a category fuck isn't it?
We Know potential is one thing and presence is another but benevolence is open to interpretation. Benevolent from your point of view or God's?

Suggest you take it up with those who claim it for their "God". As I understand it though, "Little Timmy died horribly of brain cancer did he? That'll be my lovely god working in mysterious ways then" is a fairly common piece of Christian casuistry when reality collides with dogma.   

[floo]

Vlad,

Suggest you take it up with those who claim it for their "God". As I understand it though, "Little Timmy died horribly of brain cancer did he? That'll be my lovely god working in mysterious ways then" is a fairly common piece of Christian casuistry when reality collides with dogma.

Or god always knows best.

[Shaker]

We Know potential is one thing and presence is another but benevolence is open to interpretation. Benevolent from your point of view or God's?

My definition of benevolence doesn't include cancer in children, child rape etc. For those who believe in a god presumably it does include cancer in children, child rape etc., unless we have a case of the Incredible Shrinking God Syndrome from the pious (goodness knows, we usually do) where their god is powerful enough to magic a cosmos into existence from nothing and the odd few alleged miracles confined to obscure backwaters of one planet but thereafter, when faced with situations where it could do something and make a difference, is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

I'll stick with mine, thanks.

http://tinyurl.com/yc4wvbmn

[Sebastian Toe]

The insertion of omnibenevolent in the omnis is a bit of a category fuck isn't it?
We Know potential is one thing and presence is another but benevolence is open to interpretation. Benevolent from your point of view or God's?

Do you have any idea whar God's point of view is with regards to benevolence?

[Shaker]

Do you have any idea whar God's point of view is with regards to benevolence?

Theists are rarely shy about giving us God's opinion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Suggest you take it up with those who claim it for their "God". As I understand it though, "Little Timmy died horribly of brain cancer did he? That'll be my lovely god working in mysterious ways then" is a fairly common piece of Christian casuistry when reality collides with dogma.

Caricature Christianity on your part
Only casuistry is the massaging out of human evil by secular humanism and it's invocation of God when talking about natural evils.

[Nearly Sane]

Caricature Christianity on your part
Only casuistry is the massaging out of human evil by secular humanism and it's invocation of God when talking about natural evils.

Alan Burns got his contact lens found, he's joyously happy for the loving miracle. Meanwhile babies die in agony of diseases.  No massaging. Stop misrepresenting.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

My definition of benevolence doesn't include cancer in children, child rape etc.

Blurring of the distinction between natural ill and human evil?

[Shaker]

Blurring of the distinction between natural ill and human evil?

No. A god of the traditional sort is responsible for both. I don't think it's me who is blurring the difference.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Caricature Christianity on your part
Only casuistry is the massaging out of human evil by secular humanism and it's invocation of God when talking about natural evils.

Aw look, he's only gone and dropped his Scrabble set - there's letters everywhere!

[Nearly Sane]

Blurring of the distinction between natural ill and human evil?

Alan did that with his claim of miracles.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No. A god of the traditional sort is responsible for both. I don't think it's me who is blurring the difference.

Well that's your opinion. I've never heard of the God defence working in court.

First of We have a universe we are mastering more and more. Secondly death, accident, disease is increasingly down to human activity and decision chiefly greed and the love of money which christian scripture flagged up several centuries ago.

Finally can I take this opportunity to flag up Pinker's ignorance of the devastating exploitation of nature in his praise of ''commerce''.A fine example of antitheist Turdpolish.

[Shaker]

Well that's your opinion.

Not at all. I'm merely quoting classical theism.

I've never heard of the God defence working in court.

Well no - courts operate on the basis of evidence, don't they?

First of We have a universe we are mastering more and more.

Really? Really really really?

Secondly death, accident, disease is increasingly down to human activity and decision chiefly greed and the love of money which christian scripture flagged up several centuries ago.

Firstly, evidence for this assertion? Secondly,  this makes no difference on the standard view of a god who knows about bad things, wants to stop bad things and can stop bad things.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not at all. I'm merely quoting classical theism.
Well no - courts operate on the basis of evidence, don't they?

Really? Really really really?
Firstly, evidence for this assertion? Secondly,  this makes no difference on the standard view of a god who knows about bad things, wants to stop bad things and can stop bad things.

Biggest threats to mankind
Global warming
Nuclear war
Antibiotic resistance
Limitation of antibiotics because of lack of profits
AI

[Shaker]

Biggest threats to mankind
Global warming
Nuclear war
Antibiotic resistance
Limitation of antibiotics because of lack of profits
AI

As I was saying ...

... this makes no difference on the standard view of a god who knows about bad things, wants to stop bad things and can stop bad things.

[Sassy]

Vlad,

Suggest you take it up with those who claim it for their "God". As I understand it though, "Little Timmy died horribly of brain cancer did he? That'll be my lovely god working in mysterious ways then" is a fairly common piece of Christian casuistry when reality collides with dogma.

Why did he die from brain cancer?
reality ...isn't dogma part of reality.

Are you going to die bluehillside? What will be the cause and why? Will you die anyway eventually?

Not sure why you believe pain and suffering came from God. It is clear that man himself caused pain and suffering by handing himself over to Satan.  God can make the changes and save anyone. People don't die because of God they die because of ignorance about his word.

What is it which makes you think the above is some argument against God? Or is actually relevant when it comes to God.

Man caused his own suffering because as you do now, they did not listen when told what would harm him.

[Sassy]

Truth is.... if God punished Adam none of us would have been born not existed.
All these people who have lived will one day be without pain or suffering.
Revelation 21:4King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

God is renewing all things a world without suffering and pain a place where he wanted us to be originally.

All the arguments you use are dead and impotent in light of the actual truth.

All will be reunited with their loved ones.

[Sebastian Toe]

Truth is.... if God punished Adam none of us would have been born not existed.
All these people who have lived will one day be without pain or suffering.
Revelation 21:4King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

God is renewing all things a world without suffering and pain a place where he wanted us to be originally.

All the arguments you use are dead and impotent in light of the actual truth.

All will be reunited with their loved ones.

All?

[Shaker]

God is renewing all things a world without suffering and pain a place where he wanted us to be originally.

Although so slowly as to be indistinguishable from being nonexistent.

[SteveH]

HV,

Seriously? "Omni" means omni - it doesn't mean "a bit", "quite a lot", "omni normally but half day closing Wednesdays" or something. Doesn't bother me much because the whole "God" conjecture seems to me so deeply incoherent as to be gibberish anyway, but if you want to posit a god who's a bit powerful but not completely so that's up to you I guess.

Having diluted that omni though, why not dilute the others? "Omnipresent" could be, "present quite a bit, but nips round the back of the bike sheds when it suits" perhaps, and "omnibenevolent" could mean, "quite nice, but a bit of a bastard when he's having a grumpy day" or similar.

Go for it!

When you have a serious point to make, I'll answer you. It is noticeable that all the sarcasm on this forum (and it's the same on others) comes from the non-believers. It doesn't show them in a good light.

[SteveH]

Faith in any religion is just a matter of trust, but without the evidence to support its veracity.

Change the bloody record.

[Shaker]

When you have a serious point to make, I'll answer you. It is noticeable that all the sarcasm on this forum (and it's the same on others) comes from the non-believers. It doesn't show them in a good light.

He has a serious point and he's made it.

Still, complain about the style of writing and flounce off the thread; it's easier, so why not?

[SteveH]

I haven't flounced; I'm still here, waiting for a serious answer.

[Walter]

Good post. AB is getting a lot of stick from the usual chronically-sarky atheists, but, while my brand of Christianity is different from his, he's not a bad bloke.

is there a menu of types of Christianity to choose from ?
Er- I'll have that one please


It's either all true or none of it ,that's the only choice you've got

[torridon]

Change the bloody record.

he said, sarcastically ....