Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3877993 times)

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23775 on: November 05, 2017, 03:26:21 PM »
So morality according to you is no more than arsepull.
I'm unfamiliar with this latest addition to Vladese.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23776 on: November 05, 2017, 03:49:14 PM »
There seems to be a vast difference between the God I know and the God you think I know.
You said that you find the things you pray about turn out better. If that is the case, why aren't you praying harder for thosebabies around the world who die so soon after birth from a multitude of terrible reasons?
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Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23777 on: November 05, 2017, 03:51:30 PM »
You said that you find the things you pray about turn out better. If that is the case, why aren't you praying harder for thosebabies around the world who die so soon after birth from a multitude of terrible reasons?

"About 29,000 children under the age of five – 21 each minute – die every day, mainly from preventable causes. More than 70 per cent of almost 11 million child deaths every year are attributable to six causes: diarrhoea, malaria, neonatal infection, pneumonia, preterm delivery, or lack of oxygen at birth [...] the majority [of these deaths] are preventable.  Some of the deaths occur from illnesses like measles, malaria or tetanus. Others result indirectly from marginalization, conflict and HIV/AIDS.  Malnutrition and the lack of safe water and sanitation contribute to half of all these children’s deaths.

But disease isn’t inevitable, nor do children with these diseases need to die. Research and experience show that six million of the almost 11 million children who die each year could be saved by low-tech, evidence-based, cost-effective measures such as vaccines, antibiotics, micronutrient supplementation, insecticide-treated bed nets and improved family care and breastfeeding practices."

(UNICEF website).

P45 time for this god of yours, I think, Alan.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 03:53:52 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23778 on: November 05, 2017, 04:48:22 PM »
Double standards is the key here.   As NS keeps saying, and as AB cannot refute, if a human behaved so capriciously, we would usually condemn them.   Finding contact lens - good; helping dying babies - sorry, too busy.

I suppose there is also the point made by others that God cannot help dying babies, as he is powerless.   Oh boy, where does this leave all the talk of almighty God?

Give us this day our daily bread, although we realize that this is beyond your capabilities.
I just know that prayers do get answered.

And I know that if God did not exist, I would not be able to pray, because I would not know Him.

And I know that no amount of wilful sarcasm on the subject could ever happen unless God gave people the gift of free will.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23779 on: November 05, 2017, 04:51:36 PM »
I just know that prayers do get answered.
I wish I could say the same of the questions that I ask but are roundly ignored.

Quote
And I know
Believe.

Quote
And I know
Believe.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23780 on: November 05, 2017, 04:55:28 PM »
I just know that prayers do get answered.

And I know that if God did not exist, I would not be able to pray, because I would not know Him.

And I know that no amount of wilful sarcasm on the subject could ever happen unless God gave people the gift of free will.

You don't 'know', Alan: you're rationalising, since if the 'lost contact lens versus sick babies' problem ever penetrated your well-maintained defences then your faith would crumble.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23781 on: November 05, 2017, 05:13:44 PM »
You don't 'know', Alan: you're rationalising, since if the 'lost contact lens versus sick babies' problem ever penetrated your well-maintained defences then your faith would crumble.
Gordon, You can't possibly know if I am merely rationalising about this unless you enter my mind.  My knowledge of God goes far deeper than than you could ever imagine from the outside.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23782 on: November 05, 2017, 05:14:33 PM »
I don't know if AB can really answer that problem, contact lens versus sick babies.   I suppose there are a variety of responses - God can't actually help people who are sick, because he's powerless; God could, but for mysterious reasons, he doesn't; and it's all for the best, in any case, cos when the babies die, they go to heaven; and I suppose, it's not a problem, cos I don't worry about it.
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BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23783 on: November 05, 2017, 05:16:32 PM »
Gordon, You can't possibly know if I am merely rationalising about this unless you enter my mind.  My knowledge of God goes far deeper than than you could ever imagine from the outside.

Why don't you pray for something other than finding your car keys, which will happen anyway?

Pray for someone who has lost a limb, to regain it, as that does not happen naturally in humans.
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23784 on: November 05, 2017, 05:18:04 PM »
I just know that prayers do get answered.

And I know that if God did not exist, I would not be able to pray, because I would not know Him.

And I know that no amount of wilful sarcasm on the subject could ever happen unless God gave people the gift of free will.

I just know that prayers do not get answered.

And I know that if God did exist, I would be able to pray, because I would know Him.

And I know that no amount of personal incredulity on the subject from you could ever convince me that God gave people the gift of free will.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23785 on: November 05, 2017, 06:04:21 PM »
Gordon, You can't possibly know if I am merely rationalising about this unless you enter my mind.  My knowledge of God goes far deeper than than you could ever imagine from the outside.

But not deep enough to explain why he would do trivial favours for you whilst ignoring others calling out to him in need, apparently.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23786 on: November 05, 2017, 06:23:03 PM »
Gordon, You can't possibly know if I am merely rationalising about this unless you enter my mind.  My knowledge of God goes far deeper than than you could ever imagine from the outside.

Your so called 'knowledge' of god is generated by your own mind, and is not external to it, imo.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23787 on: November 05, 2017, 06:46:09 PM »
I just know that prayers do get answered.

And I know that if God did not exist, I would not be able to pray, because I would not know Him.

And I know that no amount of wilful sarcasm on the subject could ever happen unless God gave people the gift of free will.

Lot of assertions being flung about lately, have you noticed Alan?

Kind regards ippy

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23788 on: November 05, 2017, 07:19:46 PM »
You cannot be a capricious monster and not exist,
And I am not saying that there is a god that is a capricious monster. I am saying that Alan worships a god that he portrays as a capricious monster. That says nothing about whether such a thing exists.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23789 on: November 05, 2017, 08:03:22 PM »
And I am not saying that there is a god that is a capricious monster. I am saying that Alan worships a god that he portrays as a capricious monster. That says nothing about whether such a thing exists.
But consider this. If we take God out of the equation...and atheists have, the remaining capricious monsters are us for not only do they stand back but they instigate.

In what way then can we take the advice on the side of the bus and go off and enjoy ourselves?

it sounds like we are pulling in a God to lightning rod all our iniquities.........Hang on.........I've heard of something like that before.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23790 on: November 05, 2017, 08:12:58 PM »
But consider this. If we take God out of the equation...and atheists have, the remaining capricious monsters are us for not only do they stand back but they instigate.

In what way then can we take the advice on the side of the bus and go off and enjoy ourselves?

it sounds like we are pulling in a God to lightning rod all our iniquities.........Hang on.........I've heard of something like that before.

Why are you asking me about the advert on the bus? Did I put it there? No.

Currently having read the news about Texas, and knowing we are destroying the environment for orangutans, and that sexual harassment is rife. I am not far from the idea that we are a pox of evil... But you know what? If we are your god created that and intended to have the two year old baby shot in Texas. Your god wanted that, your god chose that, it's your god's plan to have that baby shot. And you think that means love!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 08:29:57 PM by Nearly Sane »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23791 on: November 05, 2017, 08:41:41 PM »
Why are you asking me about the advert on the bus? Did I put it there? No.

Currently having read the news about Texas, and knowing we are destroying the environment for orangutans, and that sexual harassment is rife. I am not far from the idea that we are a pox of evil... But you know what? If we are your god created that and intended to have the two year old baby shot in Texas. Your god wanted that, your god chose that, it's your god's plan to have that baby shot. And you think that means love!
Totally insensitive as well as debatable. How low can you go?

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23792 on: November 05, 2017, 08:48:12 PM »
Save the faux outrage and pearl clutching for another time. He's right and you know it.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23793 on: November 05, 2017, 08:51:44 PM »
Totally insensitive as well as debatable. How low can you go?
Yeah because being 'sensitive' about you worshipping a god that chooses this is what's needed. You wanted to talk about evil but want to runaway from the implications of your belief.

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23794 on: November 05, 2017, 08:57:36 PM »
Save the faux outrage and pearl clutching for another time. He's right and you know it.

Yep - NS is on the button.

Trump tweets 'May God be with the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas.' - well if God is 'with them' then I'd say, bearing in mind what we've been discussing in this thread of late, the God is far on the scene to be of any use.

This sad event is an example of the 'problem of evil', Vlad - can you see the problem now?   

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23795 on: November 05, 2017, 09:04:27 PM »
Yep - NS is on the button.

Trump tweets 'May God be with the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas.' - well if God is 'with them' then I'd say, bearing in mind what we've been discussing in this thread of late, the God is far on the scene to be of any use.
I saw: "Our prayers are with all who were harmed by this evil act". Praying to whom - the god who allowed the massacre or a different one? And praying for what? If praying achieved anything at all surely praying for not-a-massacre-of-innocent-and-peaceful-people would be, if not right at the top, pretty close to the top of the list?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23796 on: November 05, 2017, 09:12:06 PM »
Save the faux outrage and pearl clutching for another time. He's right and you know it.
Insensitive and debateable

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23797 on: November 05, 2017, 09:14:24 PM »
Insensitive and debateable
... are my middle names.

Now: are you going to respond to the points made or are you going to have a fit of the vapours on the chaise longue?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23798 on: November 05, 2017, 09:19:31 PM »
Insensitive and debateable

So how does a Christian, such as yourself, reconcile the absence of your God in terms of it preventing this type of outrage in the first place with the calls for its presence now, after the damage has been done?   

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #23799 on: November 05, 2017, 09:21:12 PM »
Insensitive and debateable
Yes, your worship of a god that planned the death of a baby in a shooting is exactly that.