Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

The choices you make reflect what you want and you cannot choose what to want.  Indeed, such a scenario is incoherent.  Have you tried wanting something that you don't want yet ?  Our desires generally do not come out of the blue for no reason; there is a reason for things; a desire that sprang from no reason whatsoever would be a random occurrence.  This is really really simple.

I am not nature's Robot.

I have a natural desire to do very little and enjoy the pleasures of life, but though prayer I can discern God's will in my life, so I consciously choose to follow His will rather than my own self centred desires.

Yes, there are reasons for my choice, and they centre around my Creator.

[wigginhall]

It's interesting to see the negative words used by Alan to refer to nature - robotic, chaotic, indifferent - and so on.  I suppose this is the view that meaning and purpose can only come from  God, and apart from that, there is only meaninglessness and emptiness.   That's after a few Scotches really!

[torridon]

I am not nature's Robot.

I have a natural desire to do very little and enjoy the pleasures of life, but though prayer I can discern God's will in my life, so I consciously choose to follow His will rather than my own self centred desires.

Yes, there are reasons for my choice, and they centre around my Creator.

That is entirely consistent with my view; we do that which we most want, and in your example your desire to follow God's will, as you perceive it, outweighed other desires. Obviously humans are complex with multitudinous competing desires, quite often there is a choice between an instinctive behaviour and a more considered one. Whichever desire is uppermost in the current instant is what we act upon.  We cannot choose which desire is uppermost - that is an incoherent suggestion, rather we feel which desire is uppermost and act upon it.

[floo]

I am not nature's Robot.

I have a natural desire to do very little and enjoy the pleasures of life, but though prayer I can discern God's will in my life, so I consciously choose to follow His will rather than my own self centred desires.

Yes, there are reasons for my choice, and they centre around my Creator.

You are the robot of your god creation, which is rather scary!

[Nearly Sane]

I am not nature's Robot.

I have a natural desire to do very little and enjoy the pleasures of life, but though prayer I can discern God's will in my life, so I consciously choose to follow His will rather than my own self centred desires.

Yes, there are reasons for my choice, and they centre around my Creator.

So if you choice is something then it is a want and desire. To choose such a thing would also be a want or desire, which according to you would need to be chosen, I.e. by another want or desire which in turn would need to be chosen by another want or desirdy which in turn....


Holy infinite regress, Alan, man!

[Nearly Sane]

You are the robot of your god creation, which is rather scary!

'I'm sorry, Floo, I'm  afraid I can't do that.'

[floo]

'I'm sorry, Floo, I'm  afraid I can't do that.'

?

[Nearly Sane]

?

A  2001, the film, joke

[ekim]

FIFY

It's either random or determined - the word "spiritually" is meaningless.

I think it is meaningful to those of a certain religious persuasion.  'Random' can be seen as a word invented to cover an inability to see a determining factor.  If you believe in a particular God then nothing is random and all is determined by that God (aka God's Will) so there is no either/or, just ignorance of that God's Will.

[Nearly Sane]

I think it is meaningful to those of a certain religious persuasion.  'Random' can be seen as a word invented to cover an inability to see a determining factor.  If you believe in a particular God then nothing is random and all is determined by that God (aka God's Will) so there is no either/or, just ignorance of that God's Will.

So what is the meaning? Grunggghuopif could be meaningful to those of a certain religious persuasion but if they can't provide a definition, then they aren't saying anything.

[floo]

A  2001, the film, joke

Sorry still not with you, which film?

[Alan Burns]

So if you choice is something then it is a want and desire. To choose such a thing would also be a want or desire, which according to you would need to be chosen, I.e. by another want or desire which in turn would need to be chosen by another want or desirdy which in turn....

My desires, my hopes, my prayers, my dreams, my goals in life, my innermost thoughts, my implemented choices - they are all driven from the conscious awareness of my spiritual soul which is the ultimate source of what I am.  No need for the infinite regress of physically driven choice.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry still not with you, which film?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062622/

[Nearly Sane]

My desires, my hopes, my prayers, my dreams, my goals in life, my innermost thoughts, my implemented choices - they are all driven from the conscious awareness of my spiritual soul which is the ultimate source of what I am.  No need for the infinite regress of physically driven choice.

So all determined then

[ekim]

So if you choice is something then it is a want and desire. To choose such a thing would also be a want or desire, which according to you would need to be chosen, I.e. by another want or desire which in turn would need to be chosen by another want or desirdy which in turn....

I think the idea is that initially there is a desire to conform to that God's Will because there is a conflict with self will.  Once self will has dissolved then that desire ceases.  It's a bit like instead of struggling against a river current you let go and go with the flow.  You become a flow-er and blossom.

[Shaker]

I think the idea is that initially there is a desire to conform to that God's Will because there is a conflict with self will.  Once self will has dissolved then that desire ceases.  It's a bit like instead of struggling against a river current you let go and go with the flow.

Just like a dead trout.

[ekim]

So what is the meaning? Grunggghuopif could be meaningful to those of a certain religious persuasion but if they can't provide a definition, then they aren't saying anything.

It is meaningful in the sense that it leads to a heavenly state of being which to believers is 'spiritual' rather than material.

[Shaker]

All this is starting to yoke spiritual to religious. But that's a whole other thread entirely.

[Stranger]

My desires, my hopes, my prayers, my dreams, my goals in life, my innermost thoughts, my implemented choices - they are all driven from the conscious awareness of my spiritual soul which is the ultimate source of what I am.  No need for the infinite regress of physically driven choice.

I see you are still running away from addressing the fact removing the "physical" from "physically driven choice" makes bugger all difference to the fact that you must still be a deterministic entity or one that has some random element. It changes nothing fundamental at all.

[floo]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062622/

I don't think I have heard of it, but then I am not really into films apart from the Harry Potter ones.

[ekim]

Just like a dead trout.

No, you have to be conscious.

[Shaker]

I don't think I have heard of it, but then I am not really into films apart from the Harry Potter ones.

I claim my winnings.

[floo]

I claim my winnings.

?

[Nearly Sane]

It is meaningful in the sense that it leads to a heavenly state of being which to believers is 'spiritual' rather than material.

This would be heaping the meaningless Pelion upon the meaningless Ossa

[Stranger]

I think it is meaningful to those of a certain religious persuasion.

I have no doubt at all that the word has some meaning to the religious but it has no impact on the logic of the situation or the point I have been making.