Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

I see you are still running away from addressing the fact removing the "physical" from "physically driven choice" makes bugger all difference to the fact that you must still be a deterministic entity or one that has some random element. It changes nothing fundamental at all.

The fundamental difference is that we have personal control over our spiritually determined choices because they are driven by the conscious willpower of the human soul, whereas physically determined choices are driven entirely by endless chains of physical cause and effect over which we can have no control.

[Shaker]

?

I had a small wager that you wouldn't have heard of one of the most famous films and stone-cold copper-bottomed classics of all time.

[Stranger]

No, you have to be conscious.

Are you sure?

[floo]

I had a small wager that you wouldn't have heard of one of the most famous films and stone-cold copper-bottomed classics of all time.

Oh well glad you won. I have only been to the cinema about 10 times in my life, not a pleasant experience, too many people and too noisy. Another example of how weird I am.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh well glad you won. I have only been to the cinema about 10 times in my life, not a pleasant experience, too many people and too noisy. Another example of how weird I am.

I would lay a small wager, Shakerly, that the vast majority of posters on here have watched many note films outside the cinema than inside.

[ekim]

This would be heaping the meaningless Pelion upon the meaningless Ossa

For those only looking for definition, quite likely.

[floo]

I would lay a small wager, Shakerly, that the vast majority of posters on here have watched many note films outside the cinema than inside.

I have watched all the Harry Potter films at home. We have quite a number of film CDs but they belong to my husband, I have no interest in  them.

[Stranger]

The fundamental difference is that we have control over our spiritually determined choices because they are driven by the conscious willpower of the human soul, whereas physically determined choices are driven entirely by endless chains of physical cause and effect over which we can have no control.

You don't seem in the least bit interested in even trying to understand what is being said to you. You are (rather ironically) posting like a mindless automaton.

This has nothing at all to do with what 'we' have control over, it's about what we are. We have control over our choices because they are driven by the conscious willpower, whether we are spiritual deterministic beings or physical deterministic beings. It makes no fundamental difference.

Also: we are driven entirely by endless chains of cause and effect over which we can have no control, whether we (and said events) are physical or spiritual.

[Sebastian Toe]

I don't think I have heard of it, but then I am not really into films apart from the Harry Potter ones.

..even although they have music in them?!!

[floo]

You don't seem in the least bit interested in even trying to understand what is being said to you. You are (rather ironically) posting like a mindless automaton.

This has nothing at all to do with what 'we' have control over, it's about what we are. We have control over our choices because they are driven by the conscious willpower, whether we are spiritual deterministic beings or physical deterministic beings. It makes no fundamental difference.

AB doesn't wish to knowledge that as his god would be left out in the cold.

[Alan Burns]

You don't seem in the least bit interested in even trying to understand what is being said to you. You are (rather ironically) posting like a mindless automaton.

This has nothing at all to do with what 'we' have control over, it's about what we are. We have control over our choices because they are driven by the conscious willpower, whether we are spiritual deterministic beings or physical deterministic beings. It makes no fundamental difference.

Also: we are driven entirely by endless chains of cause and effect over which we can have no control, whether we (and said events) are physical or spiritual.

The fundamental difference:
A physically deterministic being has no control over its own destiny.
A spiritually deterministic being has the power to consciously choose its own destiny.

[Maeght]

Is the spiritually determined choice  random or predetermined?

[ekim]

Are you sure?

If it is a towards eternal life rather than death, I would think consciousness is essential.

[Alan Burns]

Is the spiritually determined choice  random or predetermined?

Of course it is not random if it is determined by the conscious will of the human soul.
And it is not pre determined by previous physical events, because it is spiritually invoked.

[Sebastian Toe]

The fundamental difference:
A physically deterministic being has no control over its own destiny.
A spiritually deterministic being has the power to consciously choose its own destiny.

To make it easier for you, I will call your subconscious your spirit.
Now your spirit makes your choices/spiritually determines your choices. Your concious self gets the results of your spiritually determined decisions a few milliseconds after the fact.
So you can now be a spiritual person without the need for a magic soul.
Can we all go home now?

[Alan Burns]

To make it easier for you, I will call your subconscious your spirit.
Now your spirit makes your choices/spiritually determines your choices. Your concious self gets the results of your spiritually determined decisions a few milliseconds after the fact.
So you can now be a spiritual person without the need for a magic soul.
Can we all go home now?

But my spiritual soul is not my sub conscious - that is something physical.

[Nearly Sane]

Of course it is not random if it is determined by the conscious will of the human soul.
And it is not pre determined by previous physical events, because it is spiritually invoked.

Invoked is a rather lovely word used here by you as a jism cloth.

[Stranger]

The fundamental difference:
A physically deterministic being has no control over its own destiny.
A spiritually deterministic being has the power to consciously choose its own destiny.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Do you actually know what 'deterministic' means?

If a being is deterministic it can be in 'control' in the sense that it can do as it pleases (within practical limits) but ultimately, its future is fully determined by its past (which determines its nature - what it wants to do) and its external inputs.

The arena (physical or spiritual) can make no difference to its level of control.

[Stranger]

And it is not pre determined by previous physical events, because it is spiritually invoked.

But if it is predetermined by previous events, what does it matter if they are physical or not? If it is not predetermined at all, then it is random...

[Sebastian Toe]

But my spiritual soul is not my sub conscious - that is something physical.

Did you read the bit where I said, no need for a magic soul?

[Maeght]

Of course it is not random if it is determined by the conscious will of the human soul.
And it is not pre determined by previous physical events, because it is spiritually invoked.

What on earth does spiritually invoked actually mean?  On what is this spiritual invoking based? Previous events?

[Alan Burns]

What on earth does spiritually invoked actually mean?  On what is this spiritual invoking based? Previous events?

It is simply the ability of your spiritual soul to interact with your physical brain to invoke a conscious choice.

[Nearly Sane]

It is simply the ability of your spiritual soul to interact with your physical brain to invoke a conscious choice.

Repetition of gibberish is still gibberish

[Alan Burns]

But if it is predetermined by previous events, what does it matter if they are physical or not? If it is not predetermined at all, then it is random...

The difference is that physical chains of cause and effect trace back to the beginning of time, with no possibility of any outside source of interaction.
A spiritually invoked choice derives from the conscious will of the human soul, which is aware of past events, but not controlled by them.

[torridon]

The fundamental difference:
A physically deterministic being has no control over its own destiny.
A spiritually deterministic being has the power to consciously choose its own destiny.

I don't see any rationale or evidence to justify a 'spiritually deterministic being'.  I think it is just made up noise to obscure the logic of choice.

You will claim no doubt that a 'spiritually deterministic being' can take into account relevant considerations but not be dictated by them. So how does such a being arrive at a final choice without reference to any further relevant considerations without being random ?