Searching for GOD...

[torridon]

Our physical bodies provide the window into this material world.  If the physical working of the brain does not take place for whatever reason, the perception of what is in the brain will be absent.  Our physical brains process the information which our soul can perceive.

Here we have 'window', getting an outing, part of the lexicon of meaningless verbiage of the magic black box.

[Sassy]

Dogs and pigs are animals. Do they have sex with each other?
Thought not...seems you don't really think before you post!
 

You mean they don't cross breed different breeds of animals?

Evasion isn't an answer... We as human beings cross race and breed with different nations.
Truth is that you don't believe you are the same as animals. You see you cannot say we are the same as animals if we do not live and breed the same as animals. When was the last time you mated outdoors? Animals like humans can choose whom they breed with. But they don't have the same choice as you - do they? I was not talking about preference... how many dogs do you find in a pig sty or allowed on farms to be with pigs that are not farm dogs?

We were not discussing choice. If animals why don't you have sex with other animals?

You see you can pretend but you can't hide the fact that as a human or an animal you would not choose or want to have sex with an animal it repulses most human beings. Attraction wasn't being discussed. The fact is humans are humans and animals are animals and they are nothing alike.  Truth is you do not believe yourself equal or the same as pigs and dogs or any animal.

[Shaker]

You mean they don't cross breed different breeds of animals?

Evasion isn't an answer... We as human beings cross race and breed with different nations.

That refers to breeding between members of the same species

Truth is that you don't believe you are the same as animals. You see you cannot say we are the same as animals if we do not live and breed the same as animals.

Since when was reproductive behaviour the defining hallmark of animality or the lack thereof? Unsurprisingly you've hit on yet another subject you know nothing about but don't mind embarrassing yourself with.

When was the last time you mated outdoors?

Possibly August.

[Sebastian Toe]

When was the last time you mated outdoors?

I had to think about that one as it was such a long time ago but I do believe it was 1997.
And you........?

[floo]

Sass doesn't seem to be on the same wavelength as other posters!

When was the last time you mated outdoors?

I think a lot of the human animal species enjoy a bit of hanky panky outdoors.

[ippy]

There's no reason to suppose that particular human characteristic is a 'gift', rather than a consequence of our natural evolutionary development.

One remarkable difference between sharks and humans is their capacity for electroreception; should we therefore conclude that this is a very special 'gift' that sharks alone have been given ?

I really do like this comment of yours torri, nail full square on the head.

Regards ippy

[Alan Burns]

There's no reason to suppose that particular human characteristic is a 'gift', rather than a consequence of our natural evolutionary development.

So evolution apparently explains everything, even things we can't define in physical terms. 

One remarkable difference between sharks and humans is their capacity for electroreception; should we therefore conclude that this is a very special 'gift' that sharks alone have been given ?

electroreception is a physically definable attribute, unlike our ability to consciously believe in a Creator.

[Gordon]

So evolution apparently explains everything, even things we can't define in physical terms.

It explains why you have the intellectual capacity to have go at 'defining' whatever you like: whether you do so correctly or appropriately is another matter.

electroreception is a physically definable attribute, unlike our ability to consciously believe in a Creator.

I don't have the 'ability' you refer to, which makes you wrong.

[Alan Burns]

It explains why you have the intellectual capacity to have go at 'defining' whatever you like: whether you do so correctly or appropriately is another matter.

Much as you would like it to, evolution can't be used to explain anything which can't be defined in physical terms, which includes my ability to wilfully witness to my faith in God.

I don't have the 'ability' you refer to, which makes you wrong.

But you do have the ability to disbelieve, and you have the capacity to change your mind at some time in the future, so the potential for belief is still there - it can't be dismissed.

[torridon]

So evolution apparently explains everything, even things we can't define in physical terms.  ???electroreception is a physically definable attribute, unlike our ability to consciously believe in a Creator.

The difference is a matter of degree, I would say.  A matter of the capacity for conceptual abstraction and that varies from species to species, from individual to individual and from moment to moment.  Do you believe the evidence of your eyes ? Our sense of sight is a construction of mind derived from stored elementary abstractions, and yet we all tend to believe our eyesight despite knowing that is it a fabrication.  Likewise a shark must experience something akin to vision through electroreception and a bat must experience something like vision through echo location. Humans have specialised conceptual abstraction taking it to a much higher order.  There is no justification to imagine this a supernatural ability, and even thinking that way blinds one to the awesome insights into what nature can produce given sufficient time and space.

[torridon]

Much as you would like it to, evolution can't be used to explain anything which can't be defined in physical terms, which includes my ability to wilfully witness to my faith in God.But you do have the ability to disbelieve, and you have the capacity to change your mind at some time in the future, so the potential for belief is still there - it can't be dismissed.

Is the terror experienced by an animal being stalked by a pack of wolves explainable by evolution ?  Is the care of mother humpback whale for her calf explainable by evolution ?  There is no reason to think otherwise; and the problem with the alternative, is that it boils down to magic beliefs.  If magic, then anything 

[Gordon]

Much as you would like it to, evolution can't be used to explain anything which can't be defined in physical terms, which includes my ability to wilfully witness to my faith in God.

You do like using words that you've loaded with some form of special meaning, like 'physical' and 'witness' in the above, and in addition you are also using 'evolution' in a way that seems bespoke - so just more meaningless theobabble.

But you do have the ability to disbelieve, and you have the capacity to change your mind at some time in the future, so the potential for belief is still there - it can't be dismissed.

Good heavens Alan: have you learned nothing from what people say to you?

P.S. Incoherent claims that are made using copious amounts of fallacious reasoning are easily dismissed.

[ekim]

Much as you would like it to, evolution can't be used to explain anything which can't be defined in physical terms, which includes my ability to wilfully witness to my faith in God.But you do have the ability to disbelieve, and you have the capacity to change your mind at some time in the future, so the potential for belief is still there - it can't be dismissed.

There is more than one way to a belief.  One way is through a conditioning process imposed by others especially at a young age.  This also allows 'spiritual' experiences to be retrofitted to that belief so that it is reinforced.  This way occurs largely sub/unconsciously.  Another way is through an assessment of probability which is usually carried out consciously based upon factual assessment.  Both are beliefs and not necessarily the truth which sets you free from belief (to use your slogan).

[ippy]

Much as you would like it to, evolution can't be used to explain anything which can't be defined in physical terms, which includes my ability to wilfully witness to my faith in God.But you do have the ability to disbelieve, and you have the capacity to change your mind at some time in the future, so the potential for belief is still there - it can't be dismissed.

You don't show a basic understanding of how inaccurate your description is of non-believers is, I'm not a disbeliever nor I doubt is Gordon,  there would necessarily need there to be something there for me to disbelieve in like your god idea, I've yet to see any good reason to think there's any such thing as a god, that being so for me, what is there for me to disbelieve in, in the first place?

The theory of evolution has held since Darwin's day and has been strengthened every time we have learned anything new that relates to it, the discovery by Franklin Wilson & Crick of DNA exactly fits the theory, as a glove, why would anyone deny this theory other than those with the shutters of wilful ignorance firmly shut.

Not one of your better efforts of postings Alan, my goodness you've been so heavily indoctrinated, but there in the most severe cases of indoctrination the victims don't think they have been.   

Necessarily kind regards ippy   

[Sebastian Toe]

Our physical bodies provide the window into this material world.

Where is the other side of the window if it is not in this (material)  world?

[ippy]

Where is the other side of the window if it is not in this (material)  world?

Probably godland or something else equally as rational.

Regards ippy

[floo]

So evolution apparently explains everything, even things we can't define in physical terms.  ???electroreception is a physically definable attribute, unlike our ability to consciously believe in a Creator.

Evolution makes much more sense than the creator god story.

[Alan Burns]

P.S. Incoherent claims that are made using copious amounts of fallacious reasoning are easily dismissed.

Unfortunately I perceive that your over active fallacy detector may be hiding you from the truth. 

[Alan Burns]

Evolution makes much more sense than the creator god story.

Proponents of unguided evolution claim that the specific complexity needed to support life is just a natural consequence from random, unguided non complex activity, and higher levels of complexity are not needed to develop the amazing complexity we see in living beings, particularly human beings.

Yet when we examine human creativity, there is ample evidence that the specific complexity we see in human creations was derived from the more complex activity of human brains being consciously guided by their intelligently driven free will.  This shows that conscious willpower exists and can interact with this material universe to produce intelligently conceived creations.  Just consider the implication behind the possibility that intelligently guided forces were involved in the incremental development of life as we know it, and try to imagine the degree of intelligence needed to bring this about from what begins as a cloud of exploding gas.

[Shaker]

Unfortunately I perceive that your over active fallacy detector may be hiding you from the truth.

It isn't overactive.

You're wrong a lot.

[Shaker]

Proponents of unguided evolution claim that the specific complexity needed

I remember asking you to define this phrase the last time you wheeled it out.

I don't remember you doing so.

to support life is just a natural consequence from random, unguided non complex activity, and higher levels of complexity are not needed to develop the amazing complexity we see in living beings, particularly human beings.

Why particularly human beings?

Yet when we examine human creativity, there is ample evidence that the specific complexity we see in human creations was derived from the more complex activity of human brains being consciously guided by their intelligently driven free will.  This shows that conscious willpower exists and can interact with this material universe to produce intelligently conceived creations.  Just consider the implication behind the possibility that intelligently guided forces were involved in the incremental development of life as we know it, and try to imagine the degree of intelligence needed to bring this about from what begins as a cloud of exploding gas.

If "a cloud of exploding gas" is what you think of as a capsule summary of the inflationary big bang, stick with Jesus. Thinking isn't for you.

[ippy]

Proponents of unguided evolution claim that the specific complexity needed to support life is just a natural consequence from random, unguided non complex activity, and higher levels of complexity are not needed to develop the amazing complexity we see in living beings, particularly human beings.

Yet when we examine human creativity, there is ample evidence that the specific complexity we see in human creations was derived from the more complex activity of human brains being consciously guided by their intelligently driven free will.  This shows that conscious willpower exists and can interact with this material universe to produce intelligently conceived creations.  Just consider the implication behind the possibility that intelligently guided forces were involved in the incremental development of life as we know it, and try to imagine the degree of intelligence needed to bring this about from what begins as a cloud of exploding gas.

The evidence to date we have about evolution Alan, doesn't support your uninformed version of events.

(Uninformed, please note Alan I was being polite).

Necessarily kind regards ippy.
 

[Gordon]

Proponents of unguided evolution claim that the specific complexity needed to support life is just a natural consequence from random, unguided non complex activity, and higher levels of complexity are not needed to develop the amazing complexity we see in living beings, particularly human beings.

It seems you understand little of evolution, emergence or randomness - hence your chronic incredulity: you need to do some homework.

Yet when we examine human creativity, there is ample evidence that the specific complexity we see in human creations was derived from the more complex activity of human brains being consciously guided by their intelligently driven free will.  This shows that conscious willpower exists and can interact with this material universe to produce intelligently conceived creations.  Just consider the implication behind the possibility that intelligently guided forces were involved in the incremental development of life as we know it, and try to imagine the degree of intelligence needed to bring this about from what begins as a cloud of exploding gas.

Waiter: I wish to complain about my salad - it seems to have words in it. This is utter hogwash (a word I quite like), Alan.

[Stranger]

Yet when we examine human creativity, there is ample evidence that the specific complexity we see in human creations was derived from the more complex activity of human brains being consciously guided by their intelligently driven free will.  This shows that conscious willpower exists and can interact with this material universe to produce intelligently conceived creations.  Just consider the implication behind the possibility that intelligently guided forces were involved in the incremental development of life as we know it, and try to imagine the degree of intelligence needed to bring this about from what begins as a cloud of exploding gas.

Hang on...

Yet when we examine human creations was derived from the more complex activity of life as we know it, and try to imagine the implication behind the specific complexity we know it, and can interact with this about from the more complex activity of life as we know it, and can interact with this about from the more complex activity of life as a cloud of exploding gas Yet when we see in human creations Just consider the specific complexity we see in human creations was derived from the more complex activity of exploding gas Yet when we see in human ...

Translated by: Bonsai Story Generator

[wigginhall]

Just think, if there is an infinite multiverse, there are an infinite number of Alans pumping out clouds of exploding gas.