Searching for GOD...

[Nearly Sane]

Perhaps that's his way of 'fending off' or coping with a dozen or so posters often with lengthy diatribes.  He possibly doesn't have the time to read and digest every post.  At least he doesn't resort to 'offending'.

Not reading the points made is discourteous in the extreme. Let's remember that he has stated that he understands all posts completely. You seem to think he was lying.

[Nearly Sane]

.. then give it a rest for a while.  Try a little muthos instead of logos.  It might sooth your pain.

Ha! People not posting pabulum pieces of fallacies might help.

[ekim]

Not reading the points made is discourteous in the extreme.

Not necessarily, he may be using logic in assessing priorities and frames any replies courteously.

Let's remember that he has stated that he understands all posts completely. You seem to think he was lying.

I don't remember that so I am not in a position  to  think he was lying.  Understanding all posts is not the same as reading all posts, it might be that he claims to understand all posts that he reads but doesn't read all posts.

[Nearly Sane]

Not necessarily, he may be using logic in assessing priorities and frames any replies courteously.I don't remember that so I am not in a position  to  think he was lying.  Understanding all posts is not the same as reading all posts, it might be that he claims to understand all posts that he reads but doesn't read all posts.

No, understanding all posts necessitates reading them.

[Nearly Sane]

Thanks Sweetpea.  I think this thread is beyond balance.

You seem to think balance in itself is worthwhile. This seems nonsense to me. If Alan posts illogical nonsense then the imbalance is caused by that.

[SusanDoris]

Perhaps that's his way of 'fending off' or coping with a dozen or so posters often with lengthy diatribes.  He possibly doesn't have the time to read and digest every post.  At least he doesn't resort to 'offending'.

I think perhaps one could consider his refusal to offer any alternatives - any except the same one all the time - as being somewhat offensive. However, as ever, offense is in the eye of the one who feels it.

[Sriram]

Covered this only a week ago I seem to recall.  If a closed system is subject to outside influences, then it is not a closed system at all.

Eh?!!

[Enki]

Ekim, I looked back and didn't find your comment patronising towards Alan, at all. Your contributions and Sriram's have given balance to this thread and I've found your efforts in trying to explain what you think Alan is saying very useful.

The materialists here, not able to take on the spiritual, cannot get off the starting blocks with what Alan is trying to say.

I count myself as a very spiritual person, so I find your comment in your last sentence to be both patronising and ignorant. Furthermore I understand what Alan is trying to say, it's just that I disagree with him. I would suggest he is saying it rather badly, and without any evidence whatever which, of course, if one counts spiritual evidence, would necessarily for me, include that as well.

[Sriram]

Do have a look at Professor Jim Alkali's talk about the way the European Robin navigates it's migration, (the U K Robin doesn't migrate).

It's very interesting and a mind bender, I'm sure you'll find it on YouTube.

The Robin's about one of the most loved of our English native birds it'll sit on the hand of your gardening fork inches away from you when they get to know you, I've two in my garden the both look at me and think this silly old sod's harmless and grub about when I'm digging looking to see if I've dug up any fresh looking worms for them to eat and they do this at arms length sometimes jumpingf on to the bit of ground inches in front of me right before my face, they're such cheeky little devils, call one up on google, they're a very small bird. 

Like you say things get curiouser and curiouser the more you look into them.

Regards ippy

Yes...birds are smart and have been known to do amazing things.

Looking out of my balcony there are plenty of trees and about 10-12 species of birds.  It is bright sunny with clear blue sky nearly 9 months in the year. So, dozens of kites circling high up in the blue sky. Plenty of parrots. Koyal (cuckoo), barbets, bulbul (nightingale), owls , hawks, partridges...and the usual crows and pigeons. Lots of squirrels and sometimes even monkeys. A tribe lives in a nearby wooded area and they visit now and then.

There were plenty of sparrows at one time but they seem to have disappeared now. I saw sparrows only in Paris last year.

Cheers ippy.

Sriram   

 

[Alan Burns]

Just heard this in church on this feast of the epiphany.   I felt it was appropriate for this thread -

You are my special patrons and the patrons of all latecomers, of all who have a tedious journey to make to the truth, of all who are confused with knowledge and speculation, of all who through their politeness make themselves partners in guilt, of all who stand in danger by reason of their talents.

For His sake, who did not reject your curious gifts, pray always for all the learned, the oblique, the delicate. Let them not quite be forgotten at the throne of God when the simple come into their kingdom.

from: A Prayer to the Magi by St. Helena (from Evelyn Waugh's novel Helena)

[ippy]

Just heard this in church on this feast of the epiphany.   I felt it was appropriate for this thread -

You are my special patrons and the patrons of all latecomers, of all who have a tedious journey to make to the truth, of all who are confused with knowledge and speculation, of all who through their politeness make themselves partners in guilt, of all who stand in danger by reason of their talents.

For His sake, who did not reject your curious gifts, pray always for all the learned, the oblique, the delicate. Let them not quite be forgotten at the throne of God when the simple come into their kingdom.

from: A Prayer to the Magi by St. Helena (from Evelyn Waugh's novel Helena)

Are we supposed to be impressed in some way by that load of mindless drivel? I would think it's more suited to the poor indoctrinated minds like yours  Alan?

Necessarily the very kindest of regards to you Alan, ippy

[floo]

Just heard this in church on this feast of the epiphany.   I felt it was appropriate for this thread -

You are my special patrons and the patrons of all latecomers, of all who have a tedious journey to make to the truth, of all who are confused with knowledge and speculation, of all who through their politeness make themselves partners in guilt, of all who stand in danger by reason of their talents.

For His sake, who did not reject your curious gifts, pray always for all the learned, the oblique, the delicate. Let them not quite be forgotten at the throne of God when the simple come into their kingdom.

from: A Prayer to the Magi by St. Helena (from Evelyn Waugh's novel Helena)

That appears to mean it is the less intelligent who are gullible enough to believe in god and an afterlife.

[Gordon]

Just heard this in church on this feast of the epiphany.   I felt it was appropriate for this thread -

You are my special patrons and the patrons of all latecomers, of all who have a tedious journey to make to the truth, of all who are confused with knowledge and speculation, of all who through their politeness make themselves partners in guilt, of all who stand in danger by reason of their talents.

For His sake, who did not reject your curious gifts, pray always for all the learned, the oblique, the delicate. Let them not quite be forgotten at the throne of God when the simple come into their kingdom.

from: A Prayer to the Magi by St. Helena (from Evelyn Waugh's novel Helena)

What do you think Waugh's point is here?

[Enki]

Yes...birds are smart and have been known to do amazing things.

Looking out of my balcony there are plenty of trees and about 10-12 species of birds.  It is bright sunny with clear blue sky nearly 9 months in the year. So, dozens of kites circling high up in the blue sky. Plenty of parrots. Koyal (cuckoo), barbets, bulbul (nightingale), owls , hawks, partridges...and the usual crows and pigeons. Lots of squirrels and sometimes even monkeys. A tribe lives in a nearby wooded area and they visit now and then.

There were plenty of sparrows at one time but they seem to have disappeared now. I saw sparrows only in Paris last year.

Cheers ippy.

Sriram

This took me back to my visits to India and Sri Lanka. I remember vividly how flocks of rose ringed parakeets(with a few larger alexandrines) would wheel and swoop around some of the places we visited, and the sky was always full of black kites, Indian crows and the ubiquitous feral pigeons. Also I remember seeing a range of barbets, hearing and seeing the red vented and red whiskered bulbuls and the odd Asian koel. Especially common and vocal were the common mynas which seemed to fulfill the niche of our common starlings in the UK. Great memories.

[Alan Burns]

What do you think Waugh's point is here?

That human intellect can sometimes hinder, rather than help, in our search for truth.

[Alan Burns]

Are we supposed to be impressed in some way by that load of mindless drivel? I would think it's more suited to the poor indoctrinated minds like yours  Alan?

And Evelyn Waugh, the author of what you deem to be a load of mindless drivel is recognised as one of the great prose stylists of the English language in the 20th century. (as quoted in Wiki)

[floo]

That human intellect can sometimes hinder, rather than help, in our search for truth.

Hmmmmm, that sounds like an excuse to me.

[wigginhall]

Such an odd comment - 'all who stand in danger by reason of their talents'.    What is the danger?   

[floo]

Such an odd comment - 'all who stand in danger by reason of their talents'.    What is the danger?

They grasp how little evidence there is to support belief in god.

[Gordon]

That human intellect can sometimes hinder, rather than help, in our search for truth.

Then it sounds like an appeal to simplicity, lest knowledge get in the way of this 'truth'.

[ekim]

No, understanding all posts necessitates reading them.

Yes, I agree but I am questioning the extent of 'all'.  Does that mean all posts since the beginning of this topic, all posts on every topic, all posts addressed to him, all posts written by you.  You said  'he has stated that he understands all posts completely' so if you could direct me to this statement I can see for myself and that it's not you exaggerating for effect.

[ekim]

You seem to think balance in itself is worthwhile. This seems nonsense to me. If Alan posts illogical nonsense then the imbalance is caused by that.

Yes I do think balancing is worthwhile.  From your comment do I take it that you think imbalance is worthwhile?

[Enki]

That human intellect can sometimes hinder, rather than help, in our search for truth.

On the basis of not using my intellect, I readily came to the conclusion that if your God represents some sort of truth, no such God exists. Then I decided to use my intellect, and came to the much sounder conclusion that I would be foolish to dismiss any god at all. A far more sensible position would be not to have an actual belief in any god until evidence accrued which would make my unbelief unsustainable. Until then, I could simply disregard any thought of his existence. Are you suggesting that I should simply revert back to my intuitions and innermost feelings in some sort of a search for truth?

[Nearly Sane]

Yes I do think balancing is worthwhile.  From your comment do I take it that you think imbalance is worthwhile?

Not in itself, but in certain circumstances. If someone says 2+2 =5, then if they are criticised by many people, wanting balance simply for the same of it is nonsense.

[Alan Burns]

Not in itself, but in certain circumstances. If someone says 2+2 =5, then if they are criticised by many people, wanting balance simply for the same of it is nonsense.

But nothing I have posted could be dismissed as being equivalent to 2+2=5.