Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3897674 times)

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26500 on: February 07, 2018, 01:50:26 PM »
If I get the time. Am better placed to respond than start at the moment.

If you do start this new thread make sure it fits in with your current horoscope, the right day etc, perhaps be guided by a reading of tea leaves from your cup.

Regards ippy

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26501 on: February 07, 2018, 01:51:47 PM »
If you do start this new thread make sure it fits in with your current horoscope, the right day etc, perhaps be guided by a reading of tea leaves from your cup.

Regards ippy

Why?

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7512
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26502 on: February 07, 2018, 03:02:33 PM »
I thought you were supposed to say, 'Hello Mr Magpie', three  times, have I been getting it wrong? OH DEAR! ;D

I see magpies all the time and didn't realise there was any superstition attached to them at all - so I never say or do anything!
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64349
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26503 on: February 07, 2018, 03:03:57 PM »
I see magpies all the time and didn't realise there was any superstition attached to them at all - so I never say or do anything!
Not even 'One for Sorrow...'

floo

  • Guest
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26504 on: February 07, 2018, 03:13:44 PM »
One for sorrow
Two for Joy
Three for a girl
Four for a boy
Five for silver
Six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told

A few hours because our only granddaughter was born I saw three magpies. :D

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7512
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26505 on: February 07, 2018, 03:30:29 PM »
I do remember that song. Superstitions just aren't my thing, they annoy me, I even open umbrellas indoors as long as there's no-one standing next to me whose eye might be in danger.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26506 on: February 07, 2018, 06:06:48 PM »
I do remember that song. Superstitions just aren't my thing, they annoy me, I even open umbrellas indoors as long as there's no-one standing next to me whose eye might be in danger.

Umbrellas are a recent invention; therefore I do not count any superstition around them as a folk belief.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26507 on: February 07, 2018, 09:15:25 PM »
Why?

Why not, it'd make as much sense as most of the larger percentage of the subject of this suggested thread.

Regards ippy

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64349
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26508 on: February 07, 2018, 09:47:59 PM »
Why not, it'd make as much sense as most of the larger percentage of the subject of this suggested thread.

Regards ippy


You have a bit of a problem between distinguishing between what people do and whether any claims about that are true. I feel for you.

SwordOfTheSpirit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26509 on: February 20, 2018, 04:45:08 PM »
#26463

Quote from: Gabriella
If I can neither prove nor disprove a supernatural concept, establishing reality seems an impossible goal.
Quote from: Stranger
Surely the more pertinent question is what reasons are there (arguments, evidence) to take the idea seriously? As Russell pointed out, if I were to claim that there is a teapot in orbit around the sun between Earth and Mars, you could neither prove nor disprove it - but why would you entertain the idea at all?
From that article:

Quote
Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.
What unfalsifiable claims are being made?
Who is making them?
Who is shifting the burden of disproof on to others?

Quote
Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion. He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.
Is anyone here making claims with the premise that they are right because their claim cannot be disproved?

Quote from: Stranger
As Russell pointed out, if I were to claim that there is a teapot in orbit around the sun between Earth and Mars, you could neither prove nor disprove it - but why would you entertain the idea at all?
If you were to claim this, what would be the basis of your claim? What was it that led you to that claim.

I would want to find out why someone is making the claim. Whether they are right or wrong to do so is another matter.
I haven't enough faith to be an atheist.

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26510 on: February 20, 2018, 04:57:53 PM »
What unfalsifiable claims are being made?
Who is making them?

You quoted what I was responding to from Gabriella.

Is anyone here making claims with the premise that they are right because their claim cannot be disproved?

It happens quite a lot round here but on this occasion I didn't make that accusation. Gabriella said she could neither prove nor disprove the supernatural an I pointed that the relevant question in that case was what reason was there to believe it.

Please pay more attention.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Alan Burns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
  • I lay it down of my own free will. John 10:18
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26511 on: February 21, 2018, 03:47:45 PM »
So tell me how many people have not died. And don't come up with the daft idea that Jesus is still alive somewhere, that would be even sillier than usual.
You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints.  I have personal experience of someone very close who has recently had a miraculous cure after asking for help to intercede from a deceased friend who was a very devout Christian.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26512 on: February 21, 2018, 03:53:15 PM »
You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints.

There isn't any. The studies of prayer show no effect.

I have personal experience of someone very close who has recently had a miraculous cure after asking for help to intercede from a deceased friend who was a very devout Christian.

Anecdotal evidence is an oxymoron.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Maeght

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26513 on: February 21, 2018, 04:07:59 PM »
You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints.  I have personal experience of someone very close who has recently had a miraculous cure after asking for help to intercede from a deceased friend who was a very devout Christian.

Anecdotes aren't evidence.

SusanDoris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8265
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26514 on: February 21, 2018, 04:08:23 PM »
You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints.  I have personal experience of someone very close who has recently had a miraculous cure after asking for help to intercede from a deceased friend who was a very devout Christian.
I did not ask for anecdotes about what people think helped them be cured, I asked how many people have not died/
Name one.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Alan Burns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
  • I lay it down of my own free will. John 10:18
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26515 on: February 21, 2018, 04:27:35 PM »
Anecdotes aren't evidence.
So are you are prepared to dismiss any personal witness stories which offer evidence of God and His relationship with mankind?

If so, it is yet more justification for Sassy's opening post on this thread which states: "it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him"
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64349
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26516 on: February 21, 2018, 04:29:30 PM »
So are you are prepared to dismiss any personal witness stories which offer evidence of God and His relationship with mankind?

If so it is yet more justification for Sassy's opening post on this thread which states: "it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him"
And Alan again calls everyone liars. You usually retract this after it is pointed out that yu are doing it but why do you keep repeating that people are lying about their motivation?

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19477
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26517 on: February 21, 2018, 04:37:33 PM »
AB,

Quote
So are you are prepared to dismiss any personal witness stories which offer evidence of God and His relationship with mankind?

If all they are is, "personal witness statements" then yes of course, for the same reason that you (presumably) would dismiss my personal witness statements of moonlit dancing with leprechauns. 

Quote
If so, it is yet more justification for Sassy's opening post on this thread which states: "it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him"

Flat wrong. Is it abundantly clear that you do not seek the truth regarding leprechauns? Why not?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Alan Burns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
  • I lay it down of my own free will. John 10:18
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26518 on: February 21, 2018, 04:45:20 PM »
I did not ask for anecdotes about what people think helped them be cured, I asked how many people have not died/
Name one.
If you want absolute proof for the immortality of the human soul you will no doubt get it when your physical body dies.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

SusanDoris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8265
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26519 on: February 21, 2018, 05:39:55 PM »
If you want absolute proof for the immortality of the human soul you will no doubt get it when your physical body dies.
More evasion, as expected. Just tel me the name of one person who has not died - with evidence of course.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5812
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26520 on: February 21, 2018, 05:44:29 PM »
More evasion, as expected. Just tel me the name of one person who has not died - with evidence of course.
SusanDoris  :)

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10210
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26521 on: February 21, 2018, 05:48:06 PM »
You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints.  I have personal experience of someone very close who has recently had a miraculous cure after asking for help to intercede from a deceased friend who was a very devout Christian.

Are you ignoring the witness testimony of the thousands of people who claim they are being abducted by aliens on a regular basis ?

This is why we do science; we long ago realised that anecdotal claims are not reliable.  Human minds are full of all sorts of issues that get in the way of objectivity.

If there was any real evidence for miraculous healing courtesy of dead saints then we'd have it on the NHS already.  But there isn't, so we don't.

SusanDoris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8265
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26522 on: February 21, 2018, 06:09:31 PM »
SusanDoris  :)
:D :D It is difficult to know what form of words will actually get through AB's cottonwool self-protecting barrier.

Tangent to NS: I am so pleased with the proxy way of staying on this site - many thanks.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 06:13:25 PM by SusanDoris »
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Maeght

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26523 on: February 21, 2018, 06:29:13 PM »
So are you are prepared to dismiss any personal witness stories which offer evidence of God and His relationship with mankind?

They are not evidence.

Quote
If so, it is yet more justification for Sassy's opening post on this thread which states: "it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him"

That is a different point. Saying something isn't evidence does not mean that someone is seeking reasons to keep from believing in God.

Alan Burns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
  • I lay it down of my own free will. John 10:18
Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #26524 on: February 21, 2018, 07:47:27 PM »
Are you ignoring the witness testimony of the thousands of people who claim they are being abducted by aliens on a regular basis ?


But I can't ignore the evidence I see before my eyes of a person able to walk unaided after being confined to a wheelchair for over two years
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton